PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic DISCUSSION >> ODD TIME SIGNATURES.

ALL.

AT. thanks for commenting.
what do you think about this idea ??
put in the wishlist the idea of a seperate section for what pg content
would be appropo for each odd time sig (OTS). ??
so for example this mission1 5/4 style i'm working with...

i would enter mission1 style in the picker and up would come
a list of rt's//rd's//supertracks and loops and other pg
content etc that a user could try as a base to experiment
with. rather like one might do in a commercial studio with
session players...trying various approaches and combos of
various instrumental ideas....and with this type of style
arrangement concepts and scatting.
AT...this is my first venture into OTS out of the tons of songs
ive done over the years...and its gonna be very demanding...
so...as such...i feel the above suggestion might save me time
testing out thousands of rt's//rd's//supertracks and loops.
do i make sense ?

Rharv.

thanks for commenting.
(re http://masteringmatters.com/stuff/UrbnM1bc.mp3...cute arrange.)

re testing pg content to see what fits...
thats roughly what ive been doing but its very hit and miss
and time consuming i'm finding auditioning content.
as always you come up with neat ideas.

now i want to go on a mini rant rharv...lmao.
how the darn heck some call rb junk beats me.
ive just tested a lot of daws...all great in their own way...
BUT...none of them...and i mean none of them could let me get to
this stage of OTS song developement as rb in such a short time..
because ive got it all there in rb ...all the daw features
plus the session track generation for audio and midi.

fyi...heres what happened you see. this is not made up
and is straight up.
i started listening to this 5/4 style and the old creative juices
started flowing and i thought 'hold on a cotton pickin moment
if i did this and this and that i could do a neat vocal scat
over the chord arrangement'. and thus a germ of a song idea was born.
suddenly i got very excited testing out various song ideas in rb
....as is my wont..lol.
i started going 'lovely..i got a yummy groove starting to
happen'.
so far rharv ive put in about one and a half hours in rb and got
a basic bed track/arrangement happening ie...groove..plus a guide vocal scat
over the top of the instrumentation includeing a jazz rd that seems
to fit. now i'm scouring the pg content to see what other pg
content would fit...to make a nice sound picture plus maybe a
funky fadeing solo for the outtro.
now maybe people will hate the final song demo idea..but...
in the process..its helped me understand OTS more and maybe how to
arrange for such. so what the heck i do the best i can and thats it.

BUT HERES THE RUB RHARV...re rb.
ive just been through an exhaustive process doing many daw trials.
and while there are great ones out there...for me..
with none of them.... would i have been able to reach the point
i have in song idea development in such a short time.
why ??
this is down and dirty song production. very very difficult
and challengeing. which is why i love it.
(but i know i'm on to something when my wife ... who let me tell
you can be really critical...took a listen...and went 'yeh i like it'.
getting her to say that is tough...lol....seriously.).

what do i mean by 'down and dirty'. let me explain.
with any other daw i would have had to use my midi kbd
trying various approaches probably with spending time going through
what plugins might work. and also transferring tracks to and fro between
rb and the other daw. for example i love reaps..but for this type of style ?
i need various features that rb offers....and the integrated
nature of rb audio and midi features in conjunction with track genning.
see where i'm coming from ?
so why some people say rb is junk baffles me.
this 5/4 is very very demanding re the song idea i have in my mind.
(i was thinking in my mind 'i wonder what the brilliant dave
brubeck would have done with rb'.)
anyway thats my opinion...and if people disagree...so be it.
this is gonna be a hell of a trip. and maybe at the end
i'll get egg on my face. but i'm gonna give it the old college try
and see if i'm up to it.

i feel no other music app could have got me to this stage
within such a short time. is rb 'perfect' ? nope...but i dont know
anything better for the challenge of this 5/4 song.

a footnote...MTS has a rather interesting feature and how it uses
colour in its midi piano roll. makes it easy to identify the different
patches in an imported type 0 midi file. clever idea....
and shows me that the creator of MTS put a ton of thought into
the product from a user viewpoint.)

now i'm off to eat something....lol...

happiness to all.

om

Go for it. After all, that's exactly what the Wish List is for.

That is important, though there are several ways in which it can be handled.

One is to keep everything as it is, but that does cause some upset.

One is a migration strategy, whereby files to an older standard are migrated to a newer standard, perhaps "on the fly" as I imagine is done with SG1, SG2...SGU, SGX, etc., or perhaps as a batch process.

Notes' Expanded Styles highlight both some of the issues of making BIAB work as one sometimes needs, and also give some insight into how and why such migration can be tricky. I presume(!) that his method also has the usual side-effect of halving the number of available bars in a song due to BiaB's 255-bar limit.

One of the reasons I favour a batch process is that one can run tests on old format files converting to new-format files, independently of the program that eventually will work with those files and only roll out the new program once the issues are resolved. I have little doubt that there would be quite a few such issues. One of the reasons is that the new program need not have the code for handling the migration built-in, though it certainly could call the batch program when a file needs migrating.

My strategy for embedded systems with stored parameters has long been similar to this. The data contains a version number which is checked at start-up and whilst the stored number is older than the new, I apply each data upgrade in turn, updating the version number at each step, until I'm at the most recent. By doing it in steps, I need not test previous upgrades each time, just the latest.

Great idea and I have already given it a +1

I did not want to hijack that thread so I will explain myself here. I think you should add that PGM should record some RTs in 5/4 and maybe other so called odd time signatures. It could be an add on style package that one could purchase so those whom wouldn't want wouldn't get it. Just an idea. YMMV

Mario.

definitely !

actually it might be another revenue stream for pg...
let me explain..

1..a list of existing content that us poorer musos could use
for each OTS that might work...then for the 'mansion on the lake'
musos ... lol...
2..a new created library of content that targets OTS as
paid add ons. eg a harp or harpsichord (<<love them) and other
rt's and rd's etc.

ok...i'm gonna add your suggestion to the wishlist threads so your idea
isnt lost in the ether..
trotting off now.

groovy ideas mario.

om

ps...to all.

the more i'm playing with the MTS daw the more respect i have for the designer.
mainly because it doesnt flood the user with a load of icons.
i could work with just rb and MTS.
i also like that it has its own fx suite and various other features.
good job MTS.

happiness.

om

RE : Realband (RB) adavantages when it comes to OTS.
(i'm also putting the following in my rb/other daw powerhouse thread
in the tips section.)

All....an update.

so i think ive stumbled by happenstance and experimentation
a very big advantage of rb when it comes to odd time sigs (OTS).

and let me say upfront...no i'm not biased re rb...but ive stumbled on something
...and maybe its a hidden feature..that is blowing my blinkin' mind.
let me explain...and particularly for some who might call for pg to
drop rb. maybe people are just not aware...but...what i found out is
very groovy.

here are the salient points.

1..even tho ive done a ton of songs in my life...never have i done 5/4.

2..in the process of helping in this thread re OTS i discovered
a 5/4 style that twigged a new song idea....ie useing pg mission1 style.
particularly with the pg demo...it stirred a song idea....sooo..

3..i went to town in rb to manipulate the chord arrangement to
what i heard in my head as well as started writing lyrics.
and mucked about particularly with various arrangement
alternatives until i got an arrange that matched what i heard
in my head.

4..developing the song idea the way i heard in my head i used
ONLY midi plus coyote plugin because i can work fast this way
moving midi segments around and testing various arrangements fast.
to knockers of coyote << its only being used for demoing/roughing
out ideas. BUT...heres the rub...i found a nice little piccolo
sound in coyote...sooo..lesson learnt is never discount anything.

5..at the same time i was doing the above and getting the song arranged
the way i heard in my head i was testing lots of daws free and paid.
i was doing this not only to keep more current in the daw world
but also to see how they handled OTS and other aspects viz rb.

i came up with only one conclusion putting in the intense song development
work. ie rb offered adavantages over anything ive tested.
reasons being the way it handled 5/4 IN CONJUNCTION WITH the
powerfull track generation features as well as the fact i could do test
generations on so many tracks.
quite literally in rb after 1 1/2 hrs i had my rough arrange
(bed guide tracks) done plus vocal lyric rough guide.
this was very intense very difficult down and dirty work i
couldnt have done in any daw i tested. one aspect of many
being it saved me useing my midi kbd. plus being midi everything is fast.
AND THE BONUS WAS to get me started rb selected a suitable
jazz real drum and generated it on a track.
its also interesting testing out midi supertrack and other session muso
options to render more ideas for the song.

to say this is a 'XXXXX' of an effort is an understatement...lol.
even with rb. but let me comment further and mention that the way
rb handles OTS (in this case 5/4) versus bb...is a big plus
and makeing my life easier. there is a ton of work yet to do,
as the song is just guide tracks right now and frankly i dont
know if i can pull it off....we shall see.

so to people who think pg should 'drop' rb i say this would
be a shame as it does things ive not seen other music apps do..
(includeing reaps that ive enjoyed for years..).
certainly doing this extremely challenging 5/4 song rb has been of
great benefit and ive learnt a lot...
BECAUSE of all the midi features IN CONJUNCTION
with the unique track generation features.
so why some knock rb baffles me. maybe its lack of familiarity..
dunno. along the way of course i had the occasional rb 'quirk'
but ive encountered such with other apps.

now...its not rb's fault but one big problem ive had with this
mission1 song is the time i'm haveing to spend going through
rt's/rd's/supertracks/loops etc etc auditioning to hear which
i can shape into a 5/4 time sig. which is why i started the wishlist re needing
pg content geared specifically to OTS like 5/4.
this would save me oodles of time auditioning pg content.
so...if anyone knows any current pg session muso content that would
work in a 5/4 140 bpm song...i'm all ears.


happiness.

om

MARIO.

RE AEGEAN.

OMG THIS IS BLOWING UP MY KILT ....seriously.

....loads in rb
...sforzando recognises the lib and sets up a seperate section.
...sooo many choices

i' m going thru all the lib..early days...but i cant thank you enough.
you are not just the midi king but also the library king.

i salute you sir. just super duper...

i got way enough sounds now between this and the other libs.
if i cant do a great song with all the sounds i got includeing synthmaster
from pg ... then i'm an idiot...lol.

if you dont mind and i'll attribute it to you of course i'll add aegean to libs and fx
in a rb tips thread i got going in tips forum ??
whole objective being to introduce new users to plugins that work even on a less powerfull pc...cos not everyone can afford i9/xeon/threadrippers.

as i said i know the big studios have vast libs often...but i often find such overwhelming and with so many choices i like i dont know which to use...

thanks once again...your a prince.

the OTS SONG IS LOTS OF FUN.


happiness.

om. 🇨🇦🇨🇦. 🇬🇧🇬🇧

om, I'm glad I could help. I do not have AEGEAN as I have a number of orchestral VSTis but I was impressed with the sounds of AEGEAN.

MARIO.

your the guru...so...as a matter of interest what other libs are in your
arsenal that are both smallish footprint and also
use lowish pc resources and free ?
that sound great ??

i would love to test such out in rb for possible
future song projects.

as you know vsti libs can have both plusses and minuses.
one minus being all the many options.

thanks once again.

happiness.

om

om, it might take me quite a while to check out which VSTis I have a small footprint. Most of the ones that I use have a pretty large footprint. Most all of the free VSTs have the smallest footprint so google/bing free vsts . I just did and there are a ton of them.

FYI - I currently have a large home improvement project going on, thus very limited time for music. I get on in the morning while drinking my coffee then again in the evening. Plus being old working just a little really tires me out so off to bed early I go. But I will try to help you as time permits.

mario.

sorry...please dont tire yourself on my account.
yes ive done a ton of googling but i value your input over dr google.

i hope your home project goes excellent.

btw my wife and i are laughing like crazy re your hip joint sig...

happiness and respect always.

om

http://bobandbarryshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Wejezgotcar.mp3

More odd time, to keep it relevant .. 11, 12 etc. in this one ..
done long ago, just experimenting, but I *think I played bass, one way or another (I know I played the anemic guitar parts) and PT/RB played drums (with a click!)

Anyway, thought I'd throw some more into the mix ..
/OTS is fun (for us anyway, when we find people that can follow it)
//Barry's sax solo is thru PGDistortion if I recall .. old school
///so I covered VST and OTS in a single irrelevant post!
////Totally made up story line .. I swear, I never been to Montana

Rharv.

excellent vocalist and interesting song concept.

btw where do you get that utility that shows up to play your song ?
i'm seeing it more and more.


re OTS. i'm trying to expand my thinking by experimenting with OTS.
i'm a novice as i normally do songs in NTS normal time sigs.

take five was done in 5/4 i believe.
i wonder what the most popular OTS is ? is there one ?

what plugins were used on that rharv ? for vocs etc etc.

ive found a great amount of nice free plugins..see my rb thread in tips.
some really knocked my socks off includeing ones that emulate popular outboard
that were used on hits years ago in big studios.
fyi what some users might not know is even the pg dx fx compare well
here with songs i once did in big studios useing big money outboard i would never afford
...IF...one explores chaining and other tricks with them.....
some studios were grrreat to me...charged nothing or close to such.
the AE's taught me loads. very nice giving people.

happiness.

om

No problem my friend. I will do what I can when I can.

"take five was done in 5/4 i believe.
i wonder what the most popular OTS is ? is there one ?"

Most popular OTS song in last 30+ years is probably Pink Floyd's Money .. 7/4

As far as FX on that song, we probably only had PG FX back then. That was the late 90's (maybe touching 2000), we weren't as lucky as are now with FX galore.

My guess is 5/4 with Take 5, Mission Impossible, Radiohead's 15 Step, Queens of the Stone Age's Hangin’ Tree, Iron Maiden's Number of the Beast (first part), etc.

https://www.midnightmagicsounds.com/15-songs-in-5-4-time-signature/

But as usual I'm probably wrong as this site lists 17 songs done in 7/4:

https://www.stereogum.com/2034893/17-essential-songs-in-74/lists/ultimate-playlist/

To be honest I had no idea so many non-jazz songs were in OTS.

om, what do YOU consider a smallish footprint. I ask as you definition of smallish footprint may be way different then mine. Also do you have an upper limit on costs? I know that you said free but I'm sure many of mine may have a low cost involved. By low cost I mean under $30 USD

That probably depend an awful lot one ones definition of "popular".

I suspect in Western music, 5/4 probably has it, but when one starts to consider Eastern European (including Russian) and middle-eastern music, where 7/8, 11/8 and 13/8 are quite common, the interpretation of 'popular' gets stretched.

Mario.

thanks.

heres the info...preferences...

...not worried about disc space resources...
cheap these days.
...cpu...one instance i would prefer no more than 5%
is normally what i look for.
...other aspect if someone is reading the plugins
ive tested re rb or i make a suggestion to another
muso...(lol...i even met a muso once on holiday..
wives hit it off...went shopping...while i told him all
about bb/rb...he was going wow all the time.)...
it would be nice if it ran on at least an old i5 but no older imho.
...price ?...i guess less than 50 bucks....cos of family responsibilities
ive got plus i didnt win the lottery this week...lol.
prob is this stuff changes rapidly.

NOTE...any plugin you mention will be attributed to you.
i never steal another users thunder.eg that aegean was a great find on your part..
respect...after a ton of googles i didnt come across it.

hth.

happiness.

Gordon.

i cant argue with that logic. various cultures are different.
i was mainly thinking the type of music one would find on the
top of the pops charts (<<lol.) in england or usa charts.

happiness.

om