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Is there any way to control this in BIAB? ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=28531&filename=Screenshot 2024-08-23 124850.png) I know this second picture shows every other chord entry, but this picture was all I have at this time. I want a bar of midi for every bar I enter the Chord in.
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Dan, I don't know how to do this in BiaB. This is how I do it in Studio One Pro so maybe you can also do this in Reaper? I don't have Reaper to try this.
1-bring in the Chords as pictured in picture #1 in Studio One Pro.
2- shorten the 6 measure chord to the end of measure one.
3-hightlight measure one and click on duplicate 5 times to get exactly what is shown in picture #2.
Sometimes I do this with the chord utility track.
Last edited by MarioD; 08/23/24 12:25 PM.
Unclear if the pianist is a total beginner or a professional jazz player?
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Hello Mario, thanks for the input. I am afraid that this is not possible to control in BIAB. The real problem is the behavior in BIAB is not always consistent. Sometimes the chords play and sometimes not. I just don't know what is setting this. Of couse I can edit in Reaper. But I just thought I would ask. I find my self more and more working very hard to get stuff into and out of BIAB. But that is another story.
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I was quite sure that I have used this before in BIAB and it worked fine but now I am not sure.
When I am testing it now it does not work.
It seems that a chord only plays when there is a chord change.
So a series of the same chord only play once and a series of alternating chords will play on each chord as far as I can see.
Maybe there is a setting somewhere.
(I mostly use EZKeys for this nowadays since I often need the chord structure there as well.
When I am starting from scratch, the "add standard groove" will get eight basic chords in the key for the song in the song line and each chord is playing once for each bar, it is only to change, add or remove as needed.
If I go from SongMaster Pro I export to MusicXML and 1) import it to BIAB it seems to work fine now. 2) import it to Musescore and export it to a midi file which I then drag into EZKeys and then I have it all in both BIAB and EZKeys (and the recently updated EZBass 1.2 now imports EZKeys2 files directly)).
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I was quite sure that I have used this before in BIAB and it worked fine but now I am not sure.
When I am testing it now it does not work. Yes, from my experience this behavior has changed. But this may also have also been inconsistent in the past. Lets stay on topic. I think this is "Wrong Behavior for BIAB". If I put a chord in a bar I want to hear that chord play in the midi track! Below is the Chords Track in BIAB. It shows that whenever a chord is repeated it will NOT play the subsequent chord. I feel the midi chord track needs to play ALL the chords I enter! Am I wrong? As it is now, it make no difference to the midi file if you have a chord entered or you don't have a chord entered. In either case no sound it played. If I don't want sound played I will remove the chord. This is causing a hugh effort on my part to edit this 100+bar song in my DAW when it should have been a Cut&Paste! ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=28532&filename=Screenshot 2024-08-24 104859.png)
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OK, so folk are saying "what are you talking about?". Thats fair. 
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Dan, I see the video and I agree something is amiss.
Can you give us step by step detail especially of whether these are MIDI tracks? And list the style too.
I do remember back in the MIDI-only days there was something similar: using a single period to force a rest HAD to be a different chord than the held chord preceding it. So there is history…
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Matt, yes, there is history.
This specific issue is entirely the chord midi only. No involvement of Styles. This midi is generated by the MidiChord feature to match the Chord Chart and is setup in the Preferences. You know this one. It was revamped two, maybe three years ago so that it writes to a Utility track which it names "Chords". Misha (RustySpoon) was a big advocate for it when it was last released. We use this midi track primarily to drive VSTis. My best recollection is this tied behavior is new, but I can't be sure of that.
This issue is very similar to what we (you included) have discussed in the past in terms of any general midi generation whereby the chord is tied or not tied to the next chord in the bar or across bars. That was never clarified in my recollection.
So what is old is new again.
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Dan.
re your chord problem.
1..badside is a real tracks style from what i see.
2..i get the same problem as you relying on the chord track.
so the workaround i found if you must use badside instead of a all midi style that suits you is...
1..on each realtrack in bb track window right clik on track name and select midi supertrack.
and choose from the list of supertracks.
2..NOW when you generate you will see the midi patterns on each track in the tracks window...(the audio RT will be wiped and replaced by midi
patterns)...AND the patterns DO CHANGE.
eg A minor chord followed by next bar same A minor chord youll see the midi pattern in tracks window change....
is this what you want ? ie same chord...
but different genned midi patterns for each bar ? i assume so.
frankly i would choose another style rather than badside which is realtracks based it seems. ie choose a all midi style that suits your needs....ie do tests with chord sheet.
some more info.
sometimes on a real tracks style when erasing a rt in order to get the underlying midi....
bb asks me if i want to keep the midi.
it seems on this badside style this isnt the case for some reason.
maybe i'm missing something tho'.
yep what i did was a 'workaround'...but it will allow you to generate various midi patterns for same chords. then input the multitrack midi into reaps and of course get individual tracks driving plugins i assume.
maybe theres a better way from someone but thats what i did.
in summary ignore the chord track and gen midi for the individual tracks in the style...etc etc.
such fun...lol.
hth/happiness.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 08/25/24 05:38 PM.
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Dan, I’ve never needed a chord track generated and have never used that feature. That’s why I would need steps to reproduce.
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Dan.
more info. (see my previous post also.) and tricks to try.
this is how i got as you say...
' If I put a chord in a bar I want to hear that chord play in the midi track!'...
my question is what do you want to hear ?
a simple eg piano rhythm ? simple arpegs ?
so lets take 4 bars...
Am..Am..Am..Am
do you want slight rhythm differences for each of the above same chords ? so you can decide which ones you like ?
heres another option for badside.
forget about the chord track.
heres an example i came up with.
1. go to eg util track 3 hilte it.
2. in the menu select simple arrangement.
3. in the menu select midi supertrack.
select a rhythm piano say.
4. generate to see the midi in bb tracks view.
when i did this i got a simple midi rhythm piano genned and yes i heard something different with each bar even tho' the chord stayed the same.
with above i could then say go into reaps and edit to keep the midi bar
patterns i liked.
is this more what you want for the song a simple rhythm piano ?
also note there are various settings in the dialog..
'track settings and actions dialog'.
note with above i didnt get any 'ties' for same chords on more than one bar. i got proper notation and not the ties tween adjacent bars.
what are you going for with the song ?
just a simple chording track ?
finally there are various versions of 'unchain my heart' out there.
for example joe cocker does a more up tempo version thats kinda nice.
it would help if you gave a link to which version interests you so everyone has a base reference to help you.
the prob with this stuff is bb (and rb) have loads of different ways to do what a user wants....huge numbers of features.. it just requires lots of experimentation to reach what one hears in ones head.
hth
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 08/26/24 02:20 AM.
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om, I can only assume you are not familar with the Outputchords feature in BIAB. This was added 2 - 3 years ago primarily at the request of Rustyspoon. Its intent is to provide a midi track for the Chord Chart with block chords in root position for the purpose of driving a VSTi. No longer any workarounds needed, this feature did exactly what was asked for. What I have indicated is it no longer is doing what it was intended to do. ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=28547&filename=Screenshot 2024-08-26 061224.png)
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Dan, I’ve never needed a chord track generated and have never used that feature. That’s why I would need steps to reproduce. Matt, does the picture above help? This is (or was) a very useful feature. If BIAB supported VST3 :(, you would see this being used much much more. Ask Rustyspoon, he can go on about this all day.
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Dan,
There is a workaround for your chord problem. Instead of imputing C - C where the second chord is not played input C-C/G. If you put the second chord in another inversion the second chord will play. Weird but it works.
Unclear if the pianist is a total beginner or a professional jazz player?
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Dan.
re OUTPUT CH.
of course i know about the feature.
great idea by rusty.
however for block chords...more features needed imho as follows... as at this point the block chord feature is limited.
(note DA in the following means a block ch is played.)
for example does the user want one occurrence in a bar or more.
for example a user could get a pounding block chord result (eg 50's ) if a pattern graphic feature was implemented along with the block chords option on a util track.
eg lets say in a 4/4 bar we have a fast pounding block chord beat...
da da da da da da da da or maybe we want just a brief da.
or maybe we want just da on first or third beat.
thus to do this a user would be presented with a 'pattern maker' graphic to fill in for the track as an option in a specific util track menu maybe ?
so lets take a waltz style 3/4 one could have a da on beats 1 and 2 and 3...or maybe just on beat 1 or maybe on beats 1 and 3 ?
on a rocker in 4/4 da da da da...
for ultimate flexibility of course the pattern maker would allow the user to just enter one da or more anywhere in a bar depending on users needs.
it might be nice to create synergy tween different tracks to allow different patterns on different tracks. i'm sure then some users might
want to mix patterns on a track also ?
just some ideas.
the above might obviate the need to futz around in a piano roll and save time ?
me and piano rolls often dont get along...lol.
too much hard work.
ps mario...nice workaround.
hth
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 08/26/24 05:20 AM.
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OK guys, now the truth comes out.  I understand your suggestions, however, to implement these I would have to spend longer periods in BIAB. My music is made in my DAW, so time spent messin with workarounds in BIAB is nonproductive to me. If I told you how EZKeys does this same thing I would be banned from the forum. So thanks, but no thanks. Glad to share my "Not with a bang but with a wimper" final tour here in the forum. Best of luck to you all. Dan
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Yes, the chord in the Chord Track should match the Chord Chart, not the Notation score with tied chords.
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Yes, the chord in the Chord Track should match the Chord Chart, not the Notation score with tied chords. Now there is a man who understands me!  Thank you Jeff for being so succinct (def: something written or spoken briefly and clearly expressed).
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Yes, the chord in the Chord Track should match the Chord Chart, not the Notation score with tied chords. Now there is a man who understands me! Thank you Jeff for being so succinct (def: something written or spoken briefly and clearly expressed). I agree. Dan, did you see my workaround?
Unclear if the pianist is a total beginner or a professional jazz player?
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OK Dan, now with that more detailed explanation I can see your issue and can confirm that it occurs here also. A new chord is only created/written if the chord is different to the previous chord. E.g.4 bars of separate F chords such as |F |F |F |F | will only play one single F chord, tied for 4 bars. Yep, this is a bug for sure. ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=28550&filename=2024-08-27_8-56-24.jpg)
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Yes, the chord in the Chord Track should match the Chord Chart, not the Notation score with tied chords. Now there is a man who understands me! Thank you Jeff for being so succinct (def: something written or spoken briefly and clearly expressed). I agree. Dan, did you see my workaround? Mario, yes I did and I thanked you. But perhaps my full answer was hiden in so much snark that you missed my point. Thanks, but no thanks.
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I've reported it to the developers.
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Yes, the chord in the Chord Track should match the Chord Chart, not the Notation score with tied chords. Now there is a man who understands me! Thank you Jeff for being so succinct (def: something written or spoken briefly and clearly expressed). I agree. Dan, did you see my workaround? Mario, yes I did and I thanked you. But perhaps my full answer was hiden in so much snark that you missed my point. Thanks, but no thanks. Dan, I didn't miss your point as the identical problem happens here, that is long tied notes. I also agree with you in that when you type a chord BiaB should play that chord regardless if it is the same chord from the previous measure. I just shared my workaround. Peace!
Unclear if the pianist is a total beginner or a professional jazz player?
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I also found another anomaly. If I want a rest on a particular bar, it still outputs the chord. E.g. if I want a rest on bar 3 and bar 7, I follow the chord name with a period character. The chord chart looks like this: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=28561&filename=2024-08-28_5-56-19.jpg) But the results are this: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=28562&filename=2024-08-28_5-55-50.jpg)
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Let me try to clarify. Originally Posted by jpettit
Yes, the chord in the Chord Track should match the Chord Chart, not the Notation score with tied chords. As Jeff said, the Chord Track should match the Chord Chart. Any other info such as pushs, holds, notation (ties), rhythm, or musical attributes assocated with the Styles should NOT be included. All this info is present in the individual instrument tracks of BIAB. The chord track midi is primarilly used to drive a VSTi. These insturments only need the block chord and nothing else.
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Dan, this is all new to me and I would like to understand more. I used to use Output Chords to a Voice Live Touch and it would harmonize with my microphone signal, and base that harmony on the BIAB chord. Past that, I know nothing.
Could you give me one example of a VSTi that is capable of playing something other than whole notes from this chord track? Just trying to understand.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Dan, this is all new to me and I would like to understand more. I used to use Output Chords to a Voice Live Touch and it would harmonize with my microphone signal, and base that harmony on the BIAB chord. Past that, I know nothing.
Could you give me one example of a VSTi that is capable of playing something other than whole notes from this chord track? Just trying to understand. Be still my heart!  What a wonderful question and opportunity for me to introduce you to a world of "BIAB - Integration with VST (intruments)". This is a big part of my music! And yes, VSTi are capable of playing much more than single notes, they can play entire pharses including arppegios, motifs, and runs all with complex rhythms. Most importantly to us here in the forum, this can all me initiated with the "BIAB MIDI OutputChord track". As you know our Misha is a big proponent also of this topic which is why he beats the drum so loudly for VST3 support in BIAB which we currently don't have. But the good news is the "BIAB MIDI OutputChord track" can be cut and pasted into your DAW where this is all possible. As a part of my final goodby "Not with a bang but with a wimper" tour, I will put together a short show in the near future and post it here. Dan
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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Could you give me one example of a VSTi that is capable of playing something other than whole notes from this chord track? Opps, sorry Matt, I just noticed you actually just asked for "one example". I am afraid that after 35 years as a paid consultant I can have a tendency to explain how a clock works when asked what time is it. So to answer your question: Best examples: Many (if not all) of the hundreds of NI Kontact offerings
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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90% of all strum guitar VSTis
Ample, U-Jam ... Most of them.
Multi layer synths / sequencers / arpeggiators, such as Halion, Omnisphere... pretty much all of them
Virtual bassists, Virtual orchestral instruments, virtual pianists (ToonTrack Ezkeys, EZbass and many others)
List goes on.
While BIAB has a very good range of styles, VSTi's can bridge pretty much anything that is missing. To make things work properly in BIAB we still need:
Fixing bug mentioned in this post.
VST3 support (Patiently waiting....)
Being able to add keyswitches (midi editing), without overwriting them on the next regeneration.
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I don't think this one has been fixed in BIAB 2025.
At least I can not get it to work (same issue as above).
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It has not! But I can tell you the reason I gave up trying. I found another application which does the exact same thing*! This made me question my sanity. Perhaps BIAB 2025 is doing it right. And the old way BIAB did it in the past, which I only thought was correct, was in fact wrong. I can't fight everyone on this. So I have just backed off for the time being and maybe I will learn why I really want it done this new way.
* Check out SMP
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Could you give me one example of a VSTi that is capable of playing something other than whole notes from this chord track? Just trying to understand. Matt, As you will have already seen, BIAB comes with Synthmaster. This has many, many different music patterns that are activated and played by chord chart. When I use Synthmaster: I generate a chord track on one of the utility tracks; load Synthmaster on that utility track; start the song playing and listen to the different patterns to find one that suits the song. Sometimes, I also take the generated chord track into Reaper and use Synthmaster in Reaper. Hope this helps. --Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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I don't think this one has been fixed in BIAB 2025.
At least I can not get it to work (same issue as above). Shlind, Thanks for reminding us all. This is not an insignificant issue. Yet, nothing has been done in all these months. Something changed back in the summer and only a few of us users noticed it or have acknowledged it. PGM has been silent.
Last edited by DrDan; 12/06/24 04:13 PM.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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I don't think this one has been fixed in BIAB 2025.
At least I can not get it to work (same issue as above). Shlind, Thanks for reminding us all. This is not an insignificant issue. Yet, nothing has been done in all these months. Something changed back in the summer and only a few of us users noticed it or have acknowledged it. PGM has been silent. Dan I tried the issue you were having with the chord track putting the ties on bars with the same chords. It still does this in the 2025 BIAB program but it seems to work ok in the DAW plugin. At least in the simple test I did with trying to duplicate your issue.
BIAB 2025 Ultrapack- Studio One Pro 7 Windows 11, Mac Mini M4 with Logic Pro 11, Melodyne Studio
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Dan I tried the issue you were having with the chord track putting the ties on bars with the same chords. It still does this in the 2025 BIAB program but it seems to work ok in the DAW plugin. At least in the simple test I did with trying to duplicate your issue. Quick test on my end and I think you are correct! Every chord is played. Thanks for the help with this one. ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=29318&filename=Screenshot 2024-12-07 045752.jpg)
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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The next patch of BBW 2025 will have the keyswitches feature added (preserving notes and other MIDI events that aren't notes in the range of the generated chords.
It will also restate the chords if they are the same chord as described above.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Bandcamp Soundcloud Win-11; BiaB-2025 Audiophile
Cakewalk; Melodyne-5; Scaler 2; NI Komplete:
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
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"Export To DAW" If you want the midi chord notes split at each chord name just drag it into Reaper then make an hotkey action "Mover to next Marker, Split Midi" you can then drop it back into Biab.
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"Export To DAW" If you want the midi chord notes split at each chord name just drag it into Reaper then make an hotkey action "Mover to next Marker, Split Midi" you can then drop it back into Biab. Hmmmm. That seems to presume that users all have Reaper ?
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Hmmmm, No, that knows that Dr Jazzman uses Reaper, so that makes 2 of us here at the PG forum that use Reaper so far, not all.
I did hear at one time some time back that another user here was looking at using Reaper but I'm not sure if they went through, maybe they found RealBand could do it all ? you will have to catch me up if you hear anything.
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