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I started mixing in the 60's and have always used monitors ... so I'm biased  but I thought this BMI article might be of interest. FWIW our kali monitors have an 8” woofer and settings allowing adjustment for how you place them. We also check our mixes on our large living room system with a sub, on our HomePod, in our vehicle and on Janice’s AirPods. And, yep, I realize this has been often discussed! The Case For Monitors (BMI) Bud
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Bud, that's a short article but it's good. I agree with everything said.
Like you I mix mostly with good monitors, but I always check a mix with headphones. Among other things, headphones are the best to reveal stereo imbalance and especially phase problems in the mix.
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Bud, I also mix using my monitors. I then check for stereo balance via headphones.
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Good article! I do a lot of "pre-mixing" on studio headphones, but mixing is never finished without monitors. I like my last pass at mixing to be on monitors at low (barely audible) volume to ensure I don't miss an imbalance that isn't as evident at high volumes. Am also sensitive to head placement when monitor mixing as my monitors are relatively close. Here's a pic on monitor placement from a Sound on Sound article. ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=28585&filename=Sound on Sound.jpg)
Last edited by DC Ron; 08/29/24 01:01 AM.
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Collective wisdom.
As with you folk, I mix on monitors but do critical listening on headphones while getting there.
I also check a mix on a variety of things including a couple of headphone based set ups.
The most recent track I posted, a collab with Deej, was mixed with stereo FX and panning in mind so works as both a living room true stereo & headphone approx. stereo mix.
I'm glad I like to mix with monitors because I get ear fatigue quickly with headphones/pods/buds.
Cheers
rayc
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I started mixing in the 60's and have always used monitors ... so I'm biased but I thought this BMI article might be of interest. FWIW our kali monitors have an 8” woofer and settings allowing adjustment for how you place them. We also check our mixes on our large living room system with a sub, on our HomePod, in our vehicle and on Janice’s AirPods. And, yep, I realize this has been often discussed! I'm also biased as I exclusively mix on monitors, however I do check with headphones and my home and car stereos. I find it easier to hear most mix problems with monitors (particularly phase and polarity issues). I'm glad I like to mix with monitors because I get ear fatigue quickly with headphones/pods/buds. Try some nice open-back headphones if you haven't already - they typically don't suffer from anywhere as much ear fatigue as closed-backs. AKG K240's are one of the industry standards and are inexpensive, lightweight, and sound fantastic (take a look at Beyerdynamic DT990 and Sennheiser HD600 if you feel like spending more). My K240's are coming up on 50 years old and still sound awesome (and I prefer them over my K7XX's). I also use a pair of Grado SR60e's and they're easily my most used headphones, though they're not really "flat" enough for mixing.
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Try some nice open-back headphones if you haven't already - they typically don't suffer from anywhere as much ear fatigue as closed-backs. AKG K240's are one of the industry standards and are inexpensive, lightweight, and sound fantastic (take a look at Beyerdynamic DT990 and Sennheiser HD600 if you feel like spending more). My K240's are coming up on 50 years old and still sound awesome (and I prefer them over my K7XX's). Mine were about that age when they finally gave up from me too often running over the cable with my office chair. I think the current K240 Mk2s I recently bought to replace them are not as good as the original "sextet" model.. I now use the K240 Mk2s when I'm playing my keyboard silently and K702s for more critical listening. Both are light and comfortable.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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Mine were about that age when they finally gave up from me too often running over the cable with my office chair.
I think the current K240 Mk2s I recently bought to replace them are not as good as the original "sextet" model.. I now use the K240 Mk2s when I'm playing my keyboard silently and K702s for more critical listening. Both are light and comfortable. Yep, this is one of the original "sextets". I haven't tried it side by side with any newer ones, so it's hard to compare. These ones still had the original cable, which was getting a bit rough, so I ended up replacing it by 3D printing a piece that allowed me to add a Mini XLR jack. This allows me to use the cables from my K7XX.
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re IEM's. heres a story. 15 yrs ago my lovely wife got me two pairs of sennheiser iem's. cost 20 bucks each. high quality for cheap....from radio trash. weeelll one pair has gone bad and other pair is on its last legs... sigh. sooo i tried a higher priced pair of sennys. sent them back ...not in same class as the old senny 20 bukkers. drives me nuts that i cant find a great pair of budget pair of iem's. i like iem's cos i can blast away on my guitar with the iem's on and a rough old set of stereo spkrs doing old classic rock eg acdc...halen etc. so its like i'm 'there'. the old sennys could take a pounding. now anything i try is wimpy in comparison. if any one has some recommends for powerfull senny replacements... that would be great. cos i'm worried my last pair of senny iem's are gonna go bad. ive tried loads of alternatives. why companies stop producing great budget products frustrates me to no end (imho theres lots of hype re monitors.ive used huge soffit monsters down to junk and never had success finding a monitor for mixing that translates to oodles of different playback systems...maybe i'm stupid...lol. ive even had situations where pro mix engrs did a mix for me which held up on expensive monitoring systems...BUT..didnt on other different playback systems...sigh. (i dont consider myself a pro mixer or mastering engr. its a skill that only a few are adept at imho.)) btw...take a look at these budget monitor spkrs sometime...they arent wimpy low wattage spkrs like lots of spkrs today. opinions ? https://www.rockvilleaudio.com/elite-5b/or these for budget...various stereo spkrs. opinions ? https://www.rockvilleaudio.com/bookshelf-and-compact/?in_stock=1&Bundle=Nohappiness. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 09/04/24 11:28 AM.
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Mine were about that age when they finally gave up from me too often running over the cable with my office chair.
I think the current K240 Mk2s I recently bought to replace them are not as good as the original "sextet" model.. I now use the K240 Mk2s when I'm playing my keyboard silently and K702s for more critical listening. Both are light and comfortable. Yep, this is one of the original "sextets". I haven't tried it side by side with any newer ones, so it's hard to compare. These ones still had the original cable, which was getting a bit rough, so I ended up replacing it by 3D printing a piece that allowed me to add a Mini XLR jack. This allows me to use the cables from my K7XX. I now wish I'd done similar. Unfortunately I ordered the new ones and disposed of the old. Mistake  A friend back when I bought the originals asked to borrow them to compare with his Stax electrostatic headphones. Crazy money headphones. His verdict was that the Stax were slightly better, but fearsomely heavy and fearsomely costly and if he'd know of the Sextets he wouldn't have bought the Stax.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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if any one has some recommends for powerfull senny replacements...
that would be great. cos i'm worried my last pair of senny iem's are gonna go bad. ive tried loads of alternatives. KB Ear KS1. Some of the best sounding IEM's I've used at any budget, and these are CHEAP (25 bucks at the moment. Replaceable cable and ear tips too. I now wish I'd done similar. Unfortunately I ordered the new ones and disposed of the old. Mistake That's a shame. These old K240's are easily my second most used headphones. They're lightweight and comfortable, not to mention they sound fantastic. Compared to the K7XX they sound similar (though the 240's are a little less bassy), but the K7's are heavier, less breathable, and rattle and squeak whenever I move my head! A friend back when I bought the originals asked to borrow them to compare with his Stax electrostatic headphones. Crazy money headphones. His verdict was that the Stax were slightly better, but fearsomely heavy and fearsomely costly and if he'd know of the Sextets he wouldn't have bought the Stax. I've heard of those - iirc they need a bespoke amplifier to power them. The K240's, despite being 600 ohm headphones, work and sound great straight out of an old iPod - although they're rather quiet without using a dedicated headphone amp.
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yeah, I need to replace my K240s, price seems to have gone down. Not sure why ..
I kinda miss them as of late. Thanks for the reminder; I get so used to just grabbing what's laying there, but I need to go ahead and get a fresh pair.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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I've heard of those - iirc they need a bespoke amplifier to power them. The K240's, despite being 600 ohm headphones, work and sound great straight out of an old iPod - although they're rather quiet without using a dedicated headphone amp. I seem to remember about 1980(?) the Stax were around £1k. For me back then the K240 'sextet' were, IIRC, about £30, which was quite a lot of money, but today the K240 MkII are £66. That alone tells a story. You can almost forget that you're wearing the K240s as they're so light. The Stax needed a headrest to avoid getting a stiff neck. Yes, the Stax have a bespoke amplifier+power-supply as the electrostatic drivers need a high voltage DC supply. I presumed the amplifier came with them, but I see they're listed separately ... today's "flagship bundle" is $11k.    My K702s have been fine ... no rattles or squeaks. Yes, bigger, heavier and a little less cool. I do think they're also not as good as the old 'sextet' 'phones were. The old 'sextet' models looked cheap for the money and I wonder if that hit sales.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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You can emulate monitors with headphones. I used to use the Focusrite VRM Box, but it no longer works with newer versions of Windows. I now use RealPhones, which emulates a number of environments. One nice feature is that it can run in as a regular Windows driver, so I can use it outside the DAW. Hornet VHS is a cheaper alternative. Waves has a number of products that emulate famous mixing studios in headphones. Goodhertz CanOpeners only focuses on adding crossfeed so you can avoid the issues of misjudging the mix because of the enhanced stereo effect of using headphones. But in order for any of this to work well, you still need good headphones.
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I've settled on what I think of as a "triangulation" method of mixing hardware using a combination of hi fi (studio phones, studio monitors) and (relatively) lo fi (ear buds, car stereo) sources. Sometimes I'll add one or two more (different phones, home entertainment system). The car stereo is usually last, but often valuable in the final tweaks...
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I've been alternating between the Steven Slate Audio VSX system and my Equator studio monitors calibrated using the ARC 4 Studio calibration for a long time. I'm comfortable mixing in either environment. For regular tracking, I've been using SONY MDR7506 for the last 35 years.
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Mike, my Facebook profile has been inundated with Slate ads of late, but every time I try to do research I end up reading what sound like paid or fake ads. SOooo...a real thing, right?
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Mike, my Facebook profile has been inundated with Slate ads of late, but every time I try to do research I end up reading what sound like paid or fake ads. SOooo...a real thing, right? There are two companies with Steven Slate in the name but they don't do the same thing—in fact, I don't know that he owns either anymore. The link I posted to the 'phones is real. The Essentials is $299 and comes with a few rooms—you can purchase more. The Platinum is $499 and includes all rooms along with future updates—used to be available only through their web site but I see that Sweetwater and others carry it now, too. Here's the Sweetwater link: Steven Slate Audio VSX at Sweetwater
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I'm a total newbie to recording, so forgive the naivete, but in a world where most people are using headphone/earbuds to listen to music, what's the harm in mixing with headphones? I do all my mixing with headphones, out of necessity (I don't have studio monitors, or the space for them).
I think I understand that there will be frequencies or information you might miss on headphones that aren't audible without studio monitors. But if no one ever listens to your music on studio monitors, those hidden problems are likely to stay hidden, right?
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I'm a total newbie to recording, so forgive the naivete, but in a world where most people are using headphone/earbuds to listen to music, what's the harm in mixing with headphones? I do all my mixing with headphones, out of necessity (I don't have studio monitors, or the space for them).
I think I understand that there will be frequencies or information you might miss on headphones that aren't audible without studio monitors. But if no one ever listens to your music on studio monitors, those hidden problems are likely to stay hidden, right? I think the article I linked to in my OP gave a good summary that perhaps answers your question. I do think that it is contextual to the music world one resides in. We listen to music every time we get in our vehicle via a good sound system with a subwoofer. We kick back every evening and listen to multiple genres on YouTube via our living room Polk Audio speakers with a Yamaha sub. Janice has a pair of high end Apple AirPods and uses them when working up her vocals for a song and on a few other occasions. Also FWIW our productions are oriented toward, hopefully giving you the sound you might hear from a live band while siting on the third row in the middle ... vastly different from headphones. Bud
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I think the article I linked to in my OP gave a good summary that perhaps answers your question. I do think that it is contextual to the music world one resides in. We listen to music every time we get in our vehicle via a good sound system with a subwoofer. We kick back every evening and listen to multiple genres on YouTube via our living room Polk Audio speakers with a Yamaha sub. Janice has a pair of high end Apple AirPods and uses them when working up her vocals for a song and on a few other occasions. Also FWIW our productions are oriented toward, hopefully giving you the sound you might hear from a live band while siting on the third row in the middle ... vastly different from headphones. Bud Fair enough, thanks for that bit of context. Unless I'm seeing live music (or making my own), 98% of my music listening is on headphones, so that's my frame of reference. But it's certainly not universal.
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I'm a total newbie to recording, so forgive the naivete, but in a world where most people are using headphone/earbuds to listen to music, what's the harm in mixing with headphones? I do all my mixing with headphones, out of necessity (I don't have studio monitors, or the space for them).
I think I understand that there will be frequencies or information you might miss on headphones that aren't audible without studio monitors. But if no one ever listens to your music on studio monitors, those hidden problems are likely to stay hidden, right? Here is one simple example: bass. Mixing with only headphones may result in a mix that has bass frequencies that do not match the volume of the rest of the audio. If you can’t hear a full bass in the headphones, you may raise the gain on the bass. Then your mix may blow someone right out of their car
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I'm a total newbie to recording, so forgive the naivete, but in a world where most people are using headphone/earbuds to listen to music, what's the harm in mixing with headphones? I do all my mixing with headphones, out of necessity (I don't have studio monitors, or the space for them).
I think I understand that there will be frequencies or information you might miss on headphones that aren't audible without studio monitors. But if no one ever listens to your music on studio monitors, those hidden problems are likely to stay hidden, right? Andrew Scheps & Fab Dupont discuss mixing with headphones. Andrew Sheps gives you the answer here Look him up if you want his list of credentials.
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I finally got around to watching the video, and it was pretty fascinating. Nice to see a different perspective, from someone with a lot of experience and success mixing on headphones. I understand the general wisdom of mixing on monitors. But for me, it's just physically not an option at the moment. For those of us in this situation, does anyone have any tips on how to make this work the best it can? The other night, I was mixing on my best pair of open-backed headphones, and it sounded good. I switched over to Airpods, and it sounded perhaps a little different, but overall still good. Then I listened in the car, and it was way off. And not just in the expected ways, such as more low end. The vocals were suddenly too prominent and the EQ on the guitar solo sounded totally different. I find the wild differences in different environments very frustration. Any tips for how to get a good, consistent mix that works everywhere, without monitors?
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I finally got around to watching the video, and it was pretty fascinating. Nice to see a different perspective, from someone with a lot of experience and success mixing on headphones. I understand the general wisdom of mixing on monitors. But for me, it's just physically not an option at the moment. For those of us in this situation, does anyone have any tips on how to make this work the best it can? The other night, I was mixing on my best pair of open-backed headphones, and it sounded good. I switched over to Airpods, and it sounded perhaps a little different, but overall still good. Then I listened in the car, and it was way off. And not just in the expected ways, such as more low end. The vocals were suddenly too prominent and the EQ on the guitar solo sounded totally different. I find the wild differences in different environments very frustration. Any tips for how to get a good, consistent mix that works everywhere, without monitors? A lot of those issues can be resolved with an effective mastering chain. We start with a reference song that is analyzed by Ozone, not AI 😀, and then tweaking the suggested module chain to our satisfaction on our kali monitors. Typically, we like the results on AirPods, HomePods, both vehicle systems and our living room system that includes a subwoofer. A big ole FWIW. Pardon the redundancy as I’ve previously mentioned some of this. Bud PS We very carefully pick the reference song, i.e., top production of the same genre, tempo, female vocals, desired vocal level and bass presence.
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For those of us in this situation, does anyone have any tips on how to make this work the best it can? The other night, I was mixing on my best pair of open-backed headphones, and it sounded good. I switched over to Airpods, and it sounded perhaps a little different, but overall still good. Then I listened in the car, and it was way off. And not just in the expected ways, such as more low end. The vocals were suddenly too prominent and the EQ on the guitar solo sounded totally different. I find the wild differences in different environments very frustration. Any tips for how to get a good, consistent mix that works everywhere, without monitors? Take a look at something like Realphones. They emulate the experience of mixing in various systems. I also listed a number of other products in a prior post. It provides a number of useful features: - It emulates different environments, such as high end monitors and car stereos.
- It compensates for different headphone frequency responses.
- It decreases the stereo effect from using headphones.
You'll still want to check the mix in real world listening conditions, but it can greatly reduce the mismatch you're currently getting by mixing on headphones. These go on sale on regular intervals, so you might wait before picking them up. Or you can check out some of the other lower-priced alternatives.
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[/quote] I finally got around to watching the video, and it was pretty fascinating. Nice to see a different perspective, from someone with a lot of experience and success mixing on headphones. I understand the general wisdom of mixing on monitors. But for me, it's just physically not an option at the moment. For those of us in this situation, does anyone have any tips on how to make this work the best it can? The other night, I was mixing on my best pair of open-backed headphones, and it sounded good. I switched over to Airpods, and it sounded perhaps a little different, but overall still good. Then I listened in the car, and it was way off. And not just in the expected ways, such as more low end. The vocals were suddenly too prominent and the EQ on the guitar solo sounded totally different. I find the wild differences in different environments very frustration. Any tips for how to get a good, consistent mix that works everywhere, without monitors? [/quote] When I mix with my AKG K240 Studio phones I also use a plugin on my master bus which gives me the closest true sound to what I am hearing. The programs EQ is matched with my headphones and gives a flat response. You can read all the details about this plugin Here . It is called SoundID Reference from Sonarworks. I will mix with these and check them also with Apple pods and my studio monitors. Brian
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There were a few things that surprised me in a video recently posted in "Best of YouTube", but in particular the effects of the lack of audio summing when using headphones, which is at about 20:55. I thought the whole video was probably useful/interesting, though I knew most of the effects well already. Video Video at 20:55
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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The thing about the Slate VSX is that it comes with a dedicated pair of headphones.
The room calibration tools out there rely on measurement mics either supplied by the manufacturer or 3rd party with calibration graphs that can be uploaded. At least there's a point of reference.
None of the other so-called solutions that I have seen do this. Ok... a plug-in designed to calibrate a pair of SONY 7506 sounds promising but the ear pads in these don't last very long and mine have been replaced with lambskin over memory foam — what plug-in compensates for that?
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re monitors/phones. well... being from london uk where several great studios lived and put out gold hits over the years i think people can sometimes over think this. its my understanding from other musos that in days of yore the gear used to create gold records was sometimes not the most optimum. everything from mic noise floors to tape noise, wow and flutter,...and many other issues....includeing monitors. gotta love those horn loaded speakers...lol. (just google for info eg 'recording studio london gear used in the 60's'). as the following thread suggests lots of gear was cobbled together. https://gearspace.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/54044-what-monitors-did-they-use-50s-60s.htmlnotice in the above some comments by some heavy hitters giving a usa perspective. i personally have gone round this issue a zillion times without finding a good solution whereby mixes done translate well to any listening environment...but maybe i'm just a dummie...lol. so i resign myself to the fact i just can only do the best i can... and if i fail...so be it. happiness. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 09/25/24 01:10 PM.
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i personally have gone round this issue a zillion times... Yes, we know but none of it matters. You, who agonizes over the minute cost differences between two pieces of equipment that you will never buy would be horrified at the energy cost just to run that old stuff. Then add the air conditioning it takes to keep the rooms cool after that inefficient gear has heated today's rooms beyond the boiling point. The cold hard fact is that today's mixing environments are quite small compared to those good old days you like to remind us of. I don't believe that anyone making a living in the few big rooms still out there is using BIAB.
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You can send it your altered headphones to Sonarworks and they will calibrate your updated headphones to their software. Not for free though.
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Mike.
i was just trying to point out that based on my past discussions with people working in the music production industry/commercial studios, plus trade shows plus my own independent reading of lots of threads on forums where studios/AE's hang out plus my own experiences etc...
when it comes to monitoring its a dilemma for many many people.
thus my conclusion over the years is there is no perfect solution due to the large variety of different playback systems out there.,
and for myself, ive concluded that spending lots of money on the dilemma isnt necessarily the way to go.
i posted the above link to gearspace (in my last post) because i thought it might be of interest for a pg user to read the comments of someone involved in the production of great records (Bob O).
and i'll leave it at that. pg users can always do their own research on this challenging topic.
happiness.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 09/26/24 12:42 AM.
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i personally have gone round this issue a zillion times without finding a good solution whereby mixes done translate well to any listening environment...but maybe i'm just a dummie...lol.
so i resign myself to the fact i just can only do the best i can...
and if i fail...so be it. This is basically where I have landed, at least at the moment. Since I have neither the funds nor the physical space to get the perfect solutions, I've decided to do the best I can with the imperfect situation, and remember that this is a hobby that's supposed to make me happy, not miserable and frustrated. I just posted my latest song, which was of course mixed with headphones only (User Showcase thread) . I'm sure all the mixing problems are clear (and perhaps horrifying) to the real audiophiles around here. But I remember what it sounded like at the beginning of the process, so I'm thrilled with the final result.
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Heartbreaker.
my comments...
..i listened to your song and liked it a LOT includeing the vocals.
(i'm a vocallist btw).
..what ive found in this crazy songwriting life is one could use the best studios in the world with the best mix engineers around and best monitors and still someone might find fault in some way....sooo...
..i agree just have fun. i have the same approach.
worst case one has created something out of nothing and hopefully others like it too which is a bonus.
..i have songs here that were done in big studios, and various people like them...but i also have songs/rough demoes done here with the worst of junk gear that people surpriseingly have told me they like also.
go figure.
..i wont even touch on the issue of lots of musos getting minor income from lots of net plays.
in the end i suggest not to overspend on gear these days...as even the budget gear is very good imho due to market competition.
and just enjoy the fun journey of creating songs and the satisfaction of takeing a song idea out of ones mind and actually makeing a song.
staying positive is my recommendation above all else.
i wish you the very best and liked your song.
happiness.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 09/26/24 06:00 AM.
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just enjoy the fun journey of creating songs and the satisfaction of takeing a song idea out of ones mind and actually makeing a song. Thanks for the kind words. I totally agree with this quote, and that's probably 60% of my motivation for writing and recording songs. The other 39-40% or so is the extra satisfaction of learning and getting better at it each time. I record and mix with some of the cheapest possible gear. Is the end result something studio-quality that go straight onto the top Spotify playlists? No, but that's never been the goal. I do it just because it's fun to do it, and it feels great to see the progress I make over time.
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Our “studio" is an all purpose room in our house. The recording stuff is only a Mac, two mid priced monitors, two low end headphones for recording, an entry level Scarlet interface and a decent Rodes mic. And there’s a Bowflex also. 😀 Been recording there for 36 years. And I’m not an audiophile - not with having worn hearing aids for 12 years. My point? We don’t sweat the details including models and price of the equipment. It seems to work for us. I think the details in mixing and mastering can compensate far the price of the equipment. We been fortunate enough to have 26 BiaB based songs licensed and we receive a decent number of Spotify plays so it must work for some folks. 😀😀😀
Bud
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Our “studio" is an all purpose room in our house. The recording stuff is only a Mac, two mid priced monitors, two low end headphones for recording, an entry level Scarlet interface and a decent Rodes mic. And there’s a Bowflex also. 😀 Been recording there for 36 years. And I’m not an audiophile - not with having worn hearing aids for 12 years. My point? We don’t sweat the details including models and price of the equipment. It seems to work for us. I think the details in mixing and mastering can compensate far the price of the equipment. We been fortunate enough to have 26 BiaB based songs licensed and we receive a decent number of Spotify plays so it must work for some folks. 😀😀😀
Bud So we have more in common than I would have thought - my "studio" is also an all purpose room, including a guest bed and a Peloton.
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Our “studio" is an all purpose room in our house. The recording stuff is only a Mac, two mid priced monitors, two low end headphones for recording, an entry level Scarlet interface and a decent Rodes mic. And there’s a Bowflex also. 😀 Been recording there for 36 years. And I’m not an audiophile - not with having worn hearing aids for 12 years. My point? We don’t sweat the details including models and price of the equipment. It seems to work for us. I think the details in mixing and mastering can compensate far the price of the equipment. We been fortunate enough to have 26 BiaB based songs licensed and we receive a decent number of Spotify plays so it must work for some folks. 😀😀😀
Bud So we have more in common than I would have thought - my "studio" is also an all purpose room, including a guest bed and a Peloton. We used to have a bike trainer in our room also. We mountain bike raced for many years. But we eventually ran out of age brackets. Bud
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[ I'm glad I like to mix with monitors because I get ear fatigue quickly with headphones/pods/buds. Try some nice open-back headphones if you haven't already - they typically don't suffer from anywhere as much ear fatigue as closed-backs. . Thanks Simon, I use a pair of Sennheizers from the HD500 range - open backed & comfy - I'm onto my third set of foam pads - they sound good, feel good but I still get tired ears and sore skull from the phones pushing my specs into the side of my head.
Cheers
rayc
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I use a pair of Sennheizers from the HD500 range - open backed & comfy - I'm onto my third set of foam pads - they sound good, feel good but I still get tired ears and sore skull from the phones pushing my specs into the side of my head. Ah yes, glasses. Might be worth trying something that's lightweight and on-ear like Grados (though those aren't quite what I'd suggest for monitoring, not exactly flat).
I work here
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Ah, glasses.
Obviously the following doesn't help if you don't have similar frames as mine, but it might be useful to be aware of.
I hadn't considered the issue of glasses, despite wearing the or contacts for most of my life.
It hasn't really effected me, though it does with my headset mic, which has hops over the ears.
I guess that the reason I haven't had the issue is because I wear very thin and lightweight titanium half-frames. They're thin enough and light enough that I don't notice them with headphones.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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Ah, glasses.
Obviously the following doesn't help if you don't have similar frames as mine, but it might be useful to be aware of.
I hadn't considered the issue of glasses, despite wearing the or contacts for most of my life.
It hasn't really effected me, though it does with my headset mic, which has hops over the ears.
I guess that the reason I haven't had the issue is because I wear very thin and lightweight titanium half-frames. They're thin enough and light enough that I don't notice them with headphones. I have single focus "computer glasses" made every year. Some people benefit from a blue tint in these. By caring only about comfort and ignoring style, the cost is not much–no need for any lens treatments etc. In fact, mine are somewhat ugly. I do this on purpose so that, if I'm about to drive with them on, my wife will notice and remind me to change to a pair that lets me see road signs. Many optical plans in the US include a "free glasses" benefit — and then you find that benefit to be so limited that it may as well not exist. My computer glasses are always inexpensive enough that they qualify.
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I'm due for a new prescription for my specs so I'll discuss the matter with the folk in store who know my health benefits schedule and may be able to accommodate me. THANKS
Cheers
rayc
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For those interested in the Steven Slate Audio VSX system, they're having a sale.
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Thanks for the helpful article. I start off with a gaming headset (SteelSeries Arctis 3). Over time I've learned to recognize its biases. The headset mic is handy for singing along to rehearse or to record a quick working track.
I agree that final mixes need monitors. I start with JBL 2-way broadcast monitors, then check with home stereo speakers and a computer sound bar, but the final real-world test is playing a burned CD on the Bose system in my car with flat settings.
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I guess to each his own but I like and prefer mixing on headphones and I get the best results with a pair of pretty inexpensive AKG k52s. (I have the 240s but I get better results from the k52s.)
Using the AKG k52s I can tell exactly how it's going to sound on speakers and it also allows me to pay careful attention to finer details, but that's just me.
I will admit I have had NO luck with other headphones but for some reason those AKG k52s are different and create a very rich environment for me. I found a one day special on some extra pairs last year and got 2 pairs for $30. What a deal.
Waves has a couple of those virtual room speaker simulations for headphones and I use them sometimes but I actually get better results when I have them off.
Again it may just be me and my technique but headphone mixing is easier for me and I like the AKG k52s and when I get finished mixing with them and I play it on speakers or any environment it's exactly what I was looking for, and it translates perfectly to monitors, or living room speakers and everything else, including phone speakers.
So I guess everyone has their own technique.
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My buddy Barry also loves his K52s, when I asked him to try my AKG-40s he said 'yeah they sound about the same to me' .. so I got that going for me.
Point is, sometimes more $$ doesn't equal what you were aiming for.
Find what works for you and use it.
I find myself working in headphones quite often, hasn't really bothered me bu I do notice speakers (especially nearfields) seem to make you 'feel' it a little more, not sure how to describe it except to say your whole body 'hears' it, not just your ears.
But I do not judge anyone one way or the other; do what works for you.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Interesting David as I have the K92s and I love them.
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I've been using the Sony MDR 7506 cans. I saw them recommended by a recording engineer and decided to upgrade from my cheap Yamaha cans that I bought at the local guitar store from the bargain bin. I've used them to not only track but also for mixing and the final polishing of tracks that I've posted here in the showcase.
I've noticed that if I'm mixing on them, it's harder to go to the monitors but easy to go the other way around. The cans sound really good and give great results.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I've been using the Sony MDR 7506 cans. … Those have been my go-to since 1988. I don't like to track on anything else but find that, unlike the Slate VSX, mixes barely translate. I got tired of having to replace the ear pads every year or two so, however, I went with these AURAY Genuine Sheepskin Leather Earpads . There's a bit of a break-in period before the leather and memory foam pads become comfortable but, once that happens... haven't worn out a pair yet. My 2¢
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I've been using the Sony MDR 7506 cans. … Those have been my go-to since 1988. I don't like to track on anything else but find that, unlike the Slate VSX, mixes barely translate. I got tired of having to replace the ear pads every year or two so, however, I went with these AURAY Genuine Sheepskin Leather Earpads . There's a bit of a break-in period before the leather and memory foam pads become comfortable but, once that happens... haven't worn out a pair yet. My 2¢ Mike, what do you mean by "unlike the Slate VSX, mixes barely translate"? Also...Earpad and headband rot is my personal curse. Have saved the link to your sheepskin pads. Like that idea...
DC Ron
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Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
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[quote=Guitarhacker]I've been using the Sony MDR 7506 cans. … Mike, what do you mean by "unlike the Slate VSX, mixes barely translate"? Also...Earpad and headband rot is my personal curse. Have saved the link to your sheepskin pads. Like that idea... I mix for all kinds of environments from K-LOVE radio to audiophile to AV soundtracks etc. A good mix has to translate to sound great — the more environments it does, the better. For some reason, the detailed response I get out of 7506s doesn't sound as good on many other systems as I would like. The Slate VSX is a dedicated mixing environment using plug-ins and calibrated headphones. What I hear when done sounds good on pretty much everything including my calibrated studio monitors. Did I like spending $500 on VSX? Oh hell no but I like the results.
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[quote=Guitarhacker]I've been using the Sony MDR 7506 cans. … Mike, what do you mean by "unlike the Slate VSX, mixes barely translate"? Also...Earpad and headband rot is my personal curse. Have saved the link to your sheepskin pads. Like that idea... I mix for all kinds of environments from K-LOVE radio to audiophile to AV soundtracks etc. A good mix has to translate to sound great — the more environments it does, the better. For some reason, the detailed response I get out of 7506s doesn't sound as good on many other systems as I would like. The Slate VSX is a dedicated mixing environment using plug-ins and calibrated headphones. What I hear when done sounds good on pretty much everything including my calibrated studio monitors. Did I like spending $500 on VSX? Oh hell no but I like the results. Thanks, Mike, that's very helpful. Am very intrigued by the VSX approach, but even at $399 Black Friday pricing, I'm still questioning the ROI. Am only mixing my own home studio stuff, and always review on multiple sources, with multiple incremental adjustments/versions. Sure, it's inefficient, and if I were doing this professionally I would certainly do it differently. But...I DO have the time, and (gasp!) enjoy the process...
DC Ron
BiaB Audiophile
Presonus Studio One
StudioCat DAW dual screen
Presonus Faderport 16
Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Generate Lyrics for your Band-in-a-Box songs with LyricLab!
Need some lyrics to complete your Band-in-a-Box song? LyricLab is here to help!
LyricLab (by Joanne Cooper) is an AI-powered tool designed to quickly create lyrics and chords to fit your music. Just enter a rough idea of your lyrics, and let the AI bring them to life. Once you're happy with the results, simply import the LyricLab file into Band-in-a-Box® 2024 or newer. From there, you can pick your style and generate melodies to match your song’s chords!
Learn more about LyricLab here!
Watch the video.
Band-in-a-Box 2024 Italian for Mac is Here!
Ci siamo dati da fare e abbiamo aggiunto oltre 50 nuove funzionalità e una straordinaria raccolta di nuovi contenuti, tra cui 222 RealTracks, nuovi RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 3, Playable RealDrums Set 2, due nuovi set di "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 e altro ancora!
Tutti Pacchetti | Nuove Caratteristiche
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Mac is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Mac Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK & 7, Xtra Styles PAK 17 & 18, und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 French for Mac® is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 apporte plus de 50 fonctions nouvelles ainsi qu'une importante de contenus nouveaux à savoir : 222 RealTracks, des RealStyles nouveaux, des SuperTracks MIDI, des Etudes d'Instruments, des Prestations d'Artistes, des "Morceaux avec Choeurs", un Set 3 de Tracks Jouables, un Set 2 de RealDrums Jouables, deux nouveaux Sets de "RealDrums Stems", des Styles XPro PAK 6 & 7, des Xtra Styles PAK 17 & 18, et bien plus encore!
New! XPro Styles PAK 7 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 7 with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 50 RealTracks and RealDrums that are sure to delight!
With XPro Styles PAK 7 you can expect 25 rock & pop, 25 jazz, and 25 country styles, as well as 25 of this year's wildcard genre: Celtic!
Here's a small sampling of what XPro Styles PAK 7 has to offer: energetic rock jigs, New Orleans funk, lilting jazz waltzes, fast Celtic punk, uptempo train beats, gritty grunge, intense jazz rock, groovy EDM, soulful R&B, soft singer-songwriter pop, country blues rock, and many more!
Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 7 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box 2024® with XPro Styles PAK 7! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Watch the XPro Styles PAK 7 Overview & Styles Demos video.
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2024 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box version 2024 is here with 200 brand new styles to take for a spin!
Along with 50 new styles each for the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, we’ve put together a collection of styles using sounds from the SynthMaster plugin!
In this PAK you'll find: dubby reggae grooves, rootsy Americana, LA jazz pop, driving pop rock, mellow electronica, modern jazz fusion, spacey country ballads, Motown shuffles, energetic EDM, and plenty of synth heavy grooves! Xtra Style PAK 18 features these styles and many, many more!
Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 18 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Expand your Band-in-a-Box 2024® library with Xtra Styles PAK 18! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 18 here.
Watch the Xtra Styles PAK 18 Overview & Styles Demos video.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 18 requires the 2024 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box version 2024 is here with 200 brand new styles to take for a spin!
Along with 50 new styles each for the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, we’ve put together a collection of styles using sounds from the SynthMaster plugin!
In this PAK you'll find: dubby reggae grooves, rootsy Americana, LA jazz pop, driving pop rock, mellow electronica, modern jazz fusion, spacey country ballads, Motown shuffles, energetic EDM, and plenty of synth heavy grooves! Xtra Style PAK 18 features these styles and many, many more!
Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 18 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Expand your Band-in-a-Box 2024® library with Xtra Styles PAK 18! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 18 here.
Watch the Xtra Styles PAK 18 Overview & Styles Demos video.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 18 requires the 2024 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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