PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums RealBand Same Menus as in BIAB? [Resolved]

Hi, I encountered some issues on my last project, one of which was selecting generate realtrack in Realband which gave me no instruments to add. I had to go back to BIAB and generate to a utility track, save as performance, and then import into Realband. My question is, should I be seeing the same menus in Realband? I checked the change directory (path) and those setting are correct and real track generation is allowed in preferences. Thanks!

If a track does not contain a Realtrack, you need to...

1) Make sure that you have a chord progression in the project (this happens automatically if you open an SGU/MGU file).

2) Right-click on the tracks area where the track's name is located.

3) From the pop-up menu, choose "Generate" and then "Select and generate".

'Select and generate' will open the list of Realtracks from which you can choose which one you want to put on the track.




If the track already has a Realtrack loaded on it, what I do is...

1) Select the region of Realtrack that you want to generate (or press CTRL +A to select the entire Realtrack).

2) Right-click on the track itself.

3) From the pop-up menu select "Generate" (it's a different one from the one above) and the "Regenerate track (selected region)"

Another trick is to use the right-click menu Noel describes and select Track - make all BB tracks regular tracks.
This has pros & cons depending on how you like to work, so experiment to see.

Once done the new SEQ file can't be opened in BiaB (you'll still have the original BiaB file if needed)
You gain some flexibility in workflows & and a more DAW like behavior (no regenerating all tracks all the time etc).

One possible area of confusion is RealBand performs track generation different than Band-in-a-Box.

Band-in-a-Box will automatically regenerate when certain changes are made to a track or song project. RealBand will almost never generate unless the user specifically tells RealBand to generate.

Could it be that you are expecting RealBand generation to be the same as Band-in-a-Box?

Thanks for your reply, Noel. The pictures help me to explain my point. When the project is in BIAB, I have a bunch of instrument options when I ask it to "select and generate realtrack". But when the same project is in Realband, when I open "select and generate realtrack", I have a "none" and a "silence" option and nothing else. I hope that clarifies the issue.

Thanks for that tip, Rharv.

Hi Jim,

It's more of a menu issue and the instruments not loading in it. I think I was able to clarify the question in my response to Noel.

Thanks!

BYOBand.

fyi…i'm a biab and rrb user for many years.

i suggest you request a commonality of menus tween bb and rb in the wishlists as i'm weary of beating that particular drum…lol. so i dont bother anymore.

my argument being commonality would ease the learning cycle for music production folks new to pgmusic products.

sometime read my many rb tips posted in the pg tips forum.
you might find them useful.

for example heres a tip that uses the advantages of both bb and rb.
because rb has features you wont find in bb and vice versa.
now to the tip…

by way of background in commercial studios often there is the concept of bed tracks and icings on the proverbial song cake. so…

think of of using bb for 'fleshing out' the song arrangement 'quickly' experimenting with various song ideas….(no vocals)...ie the BED GUIDE TRACKS.
what i normally do at this stage is also test how well my vocs 'sit' viz trying various song keys. as one can change bb song key easily plus in bb tracks view, at least on my ryzen pc session muso rt's generate in a blink of an eye.
in summary i use bb to develop the song concept and final arrangement….THEN…

its over to rb using all its advantages. where i would do my final lead vocals as well as the songs (as in commercial studios) 'icings on the cake'.
for example rb can do many things bb cant.

(compare the manuals of both to save me typing pages and pages re feature differences.)

are you saying you have no rt's listed in rb ?
please go into further detail on your work method in rb.
by instruments do you mean genning pg content OR
loading vsti instruments in a rb track ??


hth/ymmv/happiness.

om

If no RTs show up, double check that Options - Preferences points to the correct folder.
RB may have a slightly different description of the path (IE BB used the C\BB folder and RB used the C:\BB\Realtracks path), of course this could be E:\ or whatever ..
Or, as someone else said, maybe it is looking for another RT in that style (only).
I have not experienced this, but I usually use the 'Make all tracks regular tracks' feature.
You'll notice this changes those blue track names (BB tracks) to regular tracks (not blue) .. then I can do whatever I want to any track.

Further to rhav's comment, the image below is how I have my preferences set-up. (My realtrack/realdums are on a different drive from the BIAB program.)
The "Allow realtracks" and "Allow realdrums" options also needs to be active.

Noel,
Is that BiaB?
'cause my RB Preferences look much different.
They are separate items.

Mine looks more like below, but like you my RTs and RDs are on a separate hard drive

Hi rhav.
it's definitely RB2024 that I took the images from.
I'm not sure why my checkboxes are blue (maybe a Windows theme).
We seem to be saying the same thing in a different way.
--Noel

Hi JustAnOldMuso,

I'm coming around to this approach as well...do as much in BIAB as possible and then bring it to RealBand for finishing touches. I'm only on my 5th song, and so I'm slowly refining how to work with things.

Regarding your follow-up questions, I'm about to read Noel's next post which I hope solves the issue, but FYI:
are you saying you have no rt's listed in rb ? That's right.
please go into further detail on your work method in rb. I'm still trying to iron that out, but I created in BIAB. Opened in RB but wanted to add some other real instruments.
by instruments do you mean genning pg content OR PG
loading vsti instruments in a rb track ??

Hi Noel.

Okay. I think we're narrowing in on the problem. I see all of that just as you pictured. My next question is wouldn't Realband be accessing the same BIAB folders where my files are stored. Or does/should Realband have its own? I'm obviously doing something wrong or don't understand how things work because the only things I get when I select a track and select generate real track in the menu are:

<None>
Silence ^^Rhythm^^Jazz^^Silent RealTrack realsax.ST2

If I want to use a utility track, is that only possible in BIAB?

Realband accesses all its files from where you have them stored for BIAB to access them. So the paths have to correspond to the same path as BIAB.

If your Realtracks are a sub-folder in your BIAB directory (this is the standard installation) then you would point Realband to the Realtracks folder below. "x:" is the drive that BIAB is on.

Realtracks folder for default installation... x:\bb\realtracks
Realdrums folder for default installation... x:\bb\drums
BIAB default installation... x:\bb

In relation to Utility tracks. Realband doesn't needs them because it has 256 tracks to work with. It was only a few years ago that 16 x Utility tracks were added to BIAB as a way of have more tracks to work with in BIAB.

So all that said, I am left with the same issue. When selecting a track, then "select and generate a real track", my only options are None and Silence. Yet, my settings match those you pictured and the path is to the drive where my files are stored (same as BIAB). I'm starting to feel nuts.

BYOBand.

my suggestions...

1. when i get the pg shipped drive i immediately back it up onto super fast m.2 storage. about 50 buks includeing enclosure.
(yes the pg shipped drive is fast. but i still use the fastest m.2 i can get to ensure the fastest generation of pg content i can get.
SO...here literally its blink of an eye genning in bb.)
i store the original pg shipped drive away and use the m.2 ive copied to
hooked up over fastest usb port i have to ensure fastest accesses.

2. i always do a minimal install of bb/rb when pg install asks me. reason being that now m.2 is so fast hooked up via fast usb to my pc.
QUESTION ???? at pg install which option did you pick ?
minimal ? or not ??

3. please do the following and report back.
a pic is worth a thousand words. in rb post back a pic of where your pg content ie rt/rd etc etc is installed. to.
NOW CHECK ITS THE SAME IN BB as noel suggested. so if the pg content in bb is installed on drive C or D or K or whatever.
check in rb in prefs the same drive letter as BB.
QUESTION ???? on pg install what drive was pg content installed on ?? C ? D ? another ? i ask cos ive seen some odd weird configs.
here rb has no probs picking up the drive.
IN SUMMARY ENSURE BB AND RB POINT TO THE SAME DRIVE THAT PG CONTENT RESIDES ON.

4. one thing ive meaning to do is post in wishlist a request to pg for a table showing the feature differences tween bb and rb. which i will now do. so please gimme a +1...its sorely needed imho.
as over the years this seems to trip up new people.
eg the midi editing in rb is very advanced and rb will do many other things bb wont.
(note ive just done my yearly sojourn demoing many different daws to compare them to rb. and i still get back to useing rb due to its many unique features...BUT NOTE...to get the best out of rb one MUST be willing to really understand rb's many in depth features. crickey some folks arent willing even willing to read the rb manual and then knock the product.
note in rb are very usefull 'tips of the day'.)
OTOH in bb there is the multipicker which rb doesnt have and there are other features in bb too that are usefull. i like the genning speed in bb tracks view
for example.
as i said i use the advantages of both bb and rb.

please get back re requested drive/install info.
happiness.

om

Thanks for continuing to accompany me on this troubleshooting venture.

2) I have no idea what installation I chose. Probably whatever the default was.
3) Everything is on my C drive at the moment.

I'm attaching screenshots of a random project in RB. One shows the song generation window, one shows the folder paths, and one shows the empty menu. I hope this helps.

BYOBand

1. please post back a pic of the following in bb.

preferences >>realtracks. ie settings.

and in bb press F7 on pc kbd. to bring up multipicker.
go to realtracks and realdrums tabs. post back pics please.

2. in rb try this test.

attach pg drive that was sent...ie to the usb port.
(what package do you have ?)
now go to drive directly. ie click on it to open.
(DONT DELETE OR CHANGE ANYTHING).

go to realband folder.
down near the bottom of the rb folder you will see
Realband64. click on it (the exe) and youll see rb load and display.
next step...
in rb go to generate realtrack for a track...DO YOU SEE LOTS OF REALTRACK CONTENT DISPLAYED ??...or zilch ??
here i have about 3,800 items in the list....

once again DONT DELETE OR CHANGE ANYTHING.

i'm busy today but get back re the info.

fyi i'm a bit vision impared and sometimes have a prob with graphics.

problem solving is all about a process of elimination.
its like being a detective...lol.

fyi i always choose minimal install...for me...many benefits operating off a copy of the pg drive thats sent attached via fast usb. ymmv etc.
(are you useing a reasonably new pc or an old pc ??)

happiness.

om

Maybe try this
'Save As' the song once as a SEQ file
See if that pesky little section (in parenthesis) beside your one style selection in your RT's dialogue goes away. (first picture in your above post)

It kind of looks like the song isn't letting other RT's be used.
Maybe a remnant setting from the BiaB song file (?)

I don't think I've ever seen that "(Song doesn't allow Realtracks ...)" in that window
It may be the root of the problem.

BYOBand,

In your Realtrack picker where you have only "none" and "silence" showing, there is a checkbox at the bottom left of the screen called "Show Realtracks that are N/A". Please activate this as it will show what Realtracks are not available.



If activating this shows a list of Realtracks with N/A in front of the names, it's most likely an indication that you need to rebuild the data lists. This is done in BIAB's Stylepicker. This has happened to me on a few occasions and Rebuild seems to fix the problem.



--Noel

Good point Noel,
Rebuild is also available in the RB app, just to mention

Thanks, rharv! I cannot believe I've never used "rebuild" in Realband's Stylepicker.
It seems that it is possible to teach old dogs new tricks

That was the ticket! Thanks for cracking this nut.

I'm glad you're up and running!

Noel and Rharv.

well done. as you know ive used bb/rb combo for years.
(and powertracks before rb still a great deal imho.).

sooo.....what i'm pondering is...
'what conditions have to occur to necessitate a rebuild
in rb' ?? because i dont think in rb ive had to do a rebuild.
in bb of course.
as we know both rb and bb are choc full of features.
so i'm wondering is the rebuild in rb needed due to how the user chooses to originally install the pg apps ??...
OR due to some feature.

whatever the case i feel there needs to be a RB FAQ issued by pg re solving this issue (ie the rebuild) in case a new user like BYOBman comes across it ??

as a matter of interest Noel and Rharv...what install option do you choose for pg apps and rt content etc ??
i always choose now minimal install...which...for me..works great.
in my testing ive found no reason not to do this as the pc processors and usb bus transfer speeds and new m.2 performance is so speedy these days.
(old clunky pc's different of course depending on the pc.)
what i mean is operating direct off a m.2....
(copy of shipped drive which i store away)
gens here with such minimal install option selected in pg installer i find are blink of an eye.

given the above this raises the important question when is it to the advantage of a user to select one install option in the pg installer over another ?
eg full blown C drive install versus minimal install.
my thinking is it might be nice if pg laid out such advantages...thus clarifying things for new users.

in my case i like the minimal install option for the basic reason
if i have the whole kitchen sink (pg apps/content) on the C drive where
win os resides there might be a possibility of win interrupting to execute some process of its own...
(which many people used to report lead to audio 'stutters'..but whether this is the case with fast ssd c drives these days might not be as much of a concern unless the pc is also the net...which is why i keep my production pc off the net...and use a seperate pc for the net...)
as i said for new users i think guidance is needed re the advantage of each install option in the pg installer.

what are your thoughts re the above ??
what install options do you choose ??
do you think guidance and faq's is needed re the above from pg ??

(ps...on the subject of the net it used to be standard that recording studios kept their production pc's off the net for lots of reasons...but i find today lots of new project studios doing everything but the kitchen sink off one pc. not for me thanks due to concerns re viruses/running program impacts/os impacts etc etc.)

happiness.

om

Hi om.

I have the Audiophile version of BIAB. This comes with audio in both wav and wma formats. Because of this, the Audiophile version allows me to install the wma Realtracks on my hard drive. As a result, I run the equivalent of the UltraPAK from my computer. I use this for writing and arranging songs. Then, when I move from BIAB/RB into my DAW, I hook up the USB drive with the wav files on, and I create my export files from the higher quality format.

I have found it necessary to Rebuild the data details whenever an update is applied. I might be wrong here, because I don't always pay attention when I'm updating, but when I update BIAB, I think it's builds that contain new tracks and track information that will cause RB to see tracks as N/A. I'm in the habit of automatically updating and rebuilding my hard drive version of the program when I load a new build, so I rarely encounter errors. I update the USB drive's \bb folder less frequently.

I hope that helps
--Noel

Hmmm, maybe someone can verify, but I just brought up both the RealTracks and RealDrums pickers in RealBand, and I don't see the "rebuild and fix" buttons anymore. I know they used to be there in previous versions. You can rebuild the Stylepicker list, but I'm not seeing it for RT/RD's.

Hi John,
I don't see the "rebuild and fix" buttons either in the Realdrum/Realtracks pickers. It seem that they are in BIAB but not RB.
--Noel

same for me.

om

Well I am using RB 2024 (3) and I see it. (below)

/Edit - updated to 2024 (5) .. still see it

Rharv/all.

how weird. i'm on rb 64 bit build 5 and no rebuild button.
maybe the rb gods dont like me ?...lmao.

happiness

om

As a test I installed previous versions and tested this

it appears RB doesn't show the Rebuild button if the RT's do not need rebuilding
They outsmarted us on when to show this button!

Clever! This is something I need to keep in mind

Rharv.

nice detective work.
AI at work for user benefit.

i would suggest pg issue a faq on the subject ?
re why no rebuild button.

respect and happiness.

om

Update -
After additional & further testing BiaB causes the issue.

In Build 1104 & previous of BiaB the Rebuild button is there in RB even after rebuilding.
Versions after that (1111 and up) it is not there.