Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,561
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,561
Quote
One of the things enterprise storage and destruction company Iron Mountain does is handle the archiving of the media industry's vaults. What it has been seeing lately should be a wake-up call: roughly one-fifth of the hard disk drives dating to the 1990s it was sent are entirely unreadable.
The +++ article +++ is a five minute read.


Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (1124) RB (1) Ultra+ PAK
DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8
Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,013
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,013
Yikes! As a marine engineer, I once did a presentation titled "Everything Put Together Falls Apart" related to the inevitability of deterioration of most manmade products, and what to do about it. Didn't tell them I lifted the title came from a Paul Simon tune...

The opportunities for ensuring long term preservation of archived data are much better now than it was then. But that doesn't help recover what's been lost. Hopefully a cost-effective stop-the-bleeding plan exists for the stuff at risk.


DC Ron
BiaB Audiophile
Presonus Studio One
StudioCat DAW dual screen
Presonus Faderport 16
Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,472
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,472
It didn't help that the big HDD factory that made everything (brand didn't matter) in Thailand blew up — mid 2000s but I don't recall the year. I replaced hundreds for school districts during the last decade after being called out too many times on service calls. The summer after warranty expired, I was replacing the drives and I tested every single one.

If the OE drive was in a computer made 2009 or earlier, there was a chance that it might still be good but best to be safe than sorry. If 2010–2013… still looking for my first one. Although many still worked, the SATA graphs showed that they were on their last legs.


BIAB 2024 Audiophile, 24Core/60CoreGPU Core M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro
Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion/Overture
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,561
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,561
What I found scary in the article is the part where the archival company is provided a master HDD and safety backup HDD with both dead on arrival. The HDDs had been stored in a temperature and humidity controlled storage vault. That's music that is likely gone forever.


Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (1124) RB (1) Ultra+ PAK
DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8
Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,669
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,669
CRUCIAL INFO:
STORAGE MEDIA


and
HDD


Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,890
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,890
I have a little difficulty comprehending the surprise that over 30 year old components failing. Seems like (as the article alluded to) the issue is failure to upgrade. 🤷‍♂️

Bud


Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more.
If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks!
Our Videos are here on our website.
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,134
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,134
That was very good information.

I would have liked to have known how long a HD drive lasts if only powered up and rewritten a couple times a year. I have HDs that I use under those conditions for about 20 years now. I also have a number of newer HDs also. I have backups of backups as I do not have the money to replace all of the sounds I have collected over the 40+ years of MIDI and I do not want to lose the many digital pictures I have taken over the years.

Thanx for sharing.


Today I bought a doughnut without the sprinkles. Diets are hard!

64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,926
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,926
But, but, but, I thought that "digital was forever".

Just kidding.... but it goes to show that the old adage of "Backup, backup, backup" is as good as ever.

Since digital is either go or no-go.... as long as you stay ahead of the inevitable failures, with copying the data... which is a time consuming issue in itself.... your digital info should, at lest in theory, remain faithful to the original, unlike analog which is degraded with each new generation away from the original.

Multiple backups that layer each other stored in different formats and locations.... Kinda like the Search and Rescue motto regarding our survival gear.... Two is one and one is none. essentially that means if you have one of something, such as a flashlight, when it fails to work, you have none.... but if you have a backup.... there's that word again.... you still have one that you can hopefully rely on.


You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com
Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,472
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,472
Most (all?) HDDs made since 2023 are helium filled. Not only are they sealed but they run cooler with tighter tolerances. I wouldn't buy any that are not.

The key to any backup scheme is to have multiple copies. Besides Apple Time Machine, I use Backblaze. My HDDs are used for backup only and they are replaced when the 5 year warranty is up. My only data loss was in 1986 when my very first 20MB HDD died. I was able to use a tape recovery system that I had bought with my Mac Plus to retrieve all but my last 120 invoices and those also existed on paper so I was good after a bit of manual reentry into FileMaker Plus. Lesson learned.

These three WD icons are my three WD MyCloud arrays with 22TB helium filled HDDs backing up my entire network over Ethernet and/or WiFi. My two desktop machines each have an additional TM box for that one Mac.

[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]


BIAB 2024 Audiophile, 24Core/60CoreGPU Core M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro
Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion/Overture
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,014
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,014
.. or maybe get a cheap hosting package that is redundant (on multiple servers/drives) and backed up
I realized this loooong ago
I grabbed a $10/month unlimited storage account many years ago
Every few years they try to raise my price and I remind them my original agreement was that was the cost; they have conceded every time (grandfathered in)
yes, it adds up over time, but now, replacing HDDs for backups is not my problem, it is theirs, and a bad local drive is pretty much not a worry
Just another option/suggestion

OneDrive or similar *can* work in much the same way, but not 'unlimited storage' .. likely a 2 GB or so limit for free before they start asking for $10/month or whatever
Storage is cheap, and passing the responsibility of maintaining it off to others is pretty nominal. The hassle of replacing drives and hardware is what you are paying for

Last edited by rharv; 09/14/24 11:29 AM.

I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2,205
Product Manager
Offline
Product Manager
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2,205
Originally Posted by Guitarhacker
"Backup, backup, backup"
Still doesn't sound like enough backups...

Originally Posted by rharv
OneDrive or similar *can* work in much the same way, but not 'unlimited storage' .. likely a 2 GB or so limit for free before they start asking for $10/month or whatever
iCloud is $1.29 a month for 50gb, that's what I've got. More than enough for my most important stuff. Everything else I've got in multiple places, between two 2-bay NAS'es, a 4-bay external enclosure, a Time Machine drive, and the external SSD that I work from.


I work here
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,014
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,014
Yeah, One Drive has 100GB for $1.99 .. pretty comparable

Free is up to 5GB

Last edited by rharv; 09/16/24 02:47 PM.

I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,669
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,669
"Cloud" storage is something I'm not keen on for a few reasons. Initially it was just security, then along came errors when I learnt that much "cloud" storage is moved from machine to machine on a regular basis to bolster security. It doesn't take much for a redundancy cyclical error sort of thing to occur ,particularly if the folder levels go deep. Finally, "cloud" storage is just sending data to a server somewhere. Storage facilities use huge amounts of electricity, generate huge amounts of heat and use huge amounts of water for cooling...there has been significant impact in Scandinavia when cooling water exhaust has raised local water temps significantly. Not as much damage & waste as bit coin mining though.


Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 835
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 835
Originally Posted by Janice & Bud
I have a little difficulty comprehending the surprise that over 30 year old components failing. Seems like (as the article alluded to) the issue is failure to upgrade. 🤷‍♂️

Bud

Exactly.
They deserve what they get.

Upgrade your storage tech every 3-5 years,
Use a product like Time Machine, cloud storage and the occasional ssd dump.
Not much else to do.
You’re probably more likely to get hit by lightning.


biab2024(Mac) Latest Build
Mac OS Sequoia 15.0.1
Apple M2 pro 32GB Ram
Logic Pro 11
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2,205
Product Manager
Offline
Product Manager
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2,205
Originally Posted by rharv
Yeah, One Drive has 100GB for $1.99 .. pretty comparable

Free is up to 5GB
I think Google Drive free is 15gb, could be enough for someone.

Originally Posted by rayc
It doesn't take much for a redundancy cyclical error sort of thing to occur ,particularly if the folder levels go deep.
I think cloud storage is fine, as long as it isn't your only backup. Any good backup system has multiple layers.

Originally Posted by rayc
Not as much damage & waste as bit coin mining though.
And nowhere near as much as AI.

Originally Posted by mrgeeze
You’re probably more likely to get hit by lightning.
I can't say I know anyone who's been hit by lightning...

Last edited by Simon - PG Music; 09/17/24 08:42 AM.

I work here
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 19,788
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 19,788
Originally Posted by Simon - PG Music
...
Originally Posted by mrgeeze
You’re probably more likely to get hit by lightning.
I can't say I know anyone who's been hit by lightning...
I must say I was a little intrigued to know more about the statistics.

The National Weather Services States:
"According to the NWS Storm Data, over the last 30 years (1989-2018) the U.S. has averaged 43 reported lightning fatalities per year. Only about 10% of people who are struck by lightning are killed, leaving 90% with various degrees of disability. More recently, in the last 10 years (2009-2018), the U.S. has averaged 27 lightning fatalities."

At an average of 270 'lightning strikes' per year in the States, there are possibly more Hard Drive failures / year than lightning strikes.


BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 835
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 835
Originally Posted by AudioTrack
Originally Posted by Simon - PG Music
...
Originally Posted by mrgeeze
You’re probably more likely to get hit by lightning.
I can't say I know anyone who's been hit by lightning...
I must say I was a little intrigued to know more about the statistics.

The National Weather Services States:
"According to the NWS Storm Data, over the last 30 years (1989-2018) the U.S. has averaged 43 reported lightning fatalities per year. Only about 10% of people who are struck by lightning are killed, leaving 90% with various degrees of disability. More recently, in the last 10 years (2009-2018), the U.S. has averaged 27 lightning fatalities."

At an average of 270 'lightning strikes' per year in the States, there are possibly more Hard Drive failures / year than lightning strikes.


I agree, You’re more likely to have a drive fail than get lit up.
Both probabilities are pretty close to zero.
At least they should be if your backup statedgerie is sane.
And you stay off the water in a thunderstorm.

That’s my point.


biab2024(Mac) Latest Build
Mac OS Sequoia 15.0.1
Apple M2 pro 32GB Ram
Logic Pro 11
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows® Today!

If you’ve already purchased Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®, great news—a new update is now available! This update introduces a handy new feature: a vertical cursor in the Tracks window that shows the current location across all tracks, and more.

Discover everything included in this free update and download it now at https://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1124

Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Boot Camp: The AI Lyrics Generator

With Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows®, we've introduced an exciting new feature: the AI Lyrics Generator! In this video, Tobin guides you step-by-step on how to make the most of this new tool.

Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Boot Camp: The AI Lyrics Generator video.

Check out the forum post for more information.

Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using VST3 Plugins

Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows® now includes support for VST3 plugins, bringing even more creative possibilities to your music production. Join Simon as he guides you through the process in this easy-to-follow demonstration!

Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using VST3 Plugins

Join the conversation on our forum.

Video: Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows: Using The BB Stem Splitter!

In this video, Tobin provides a crash course on using the new BB Stem Splitter feature included in Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows®. During this process he also uses the Audio Chord Wizard (ACW) and the new Equalize Tempo feature.

Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using the BB Stem Splitter

Check out the forum post for some optional Tips & Tricks!

Congrats to Misha (Rustyspoon)…downloaded/installed a full Audiophile 2025!

Breaking News!

We’re thrilled to announce that Rustyspoon has made PG history as the very first person to successfully complete the download and install of the full Band-in-a-Box 2025 Windows Audiophile Edition (with FLAC files)—a whopping 610GB of data!

A big shoutout to Rustyspoon for stepping up to be our test "elf!"

Thank you for your support, Rustyspoon!

Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows Videos

With the launch of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows, we're adding new videos to our YouTube channel. We'll also share them here once they are published so you can easily find all the Band-in-a-Box® 2025 and new Add-on videos in one place!

Whether it's a summary of the new features, demonstrations of the 202 new RealTracks, new XPro Styles PAK 8, or Xtra Styles PAKs 18, information on the 2025 49-PAK, or detailed tutorials for other Band-in-a-Box® 2025 features, we have you covered!

Reference this forum post for One-Stop Shopping of our Band-in-a-Box® 2025 Videos - we will be updating this post as more videos are added!

Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows is Here!

Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows is here, packed with major new features and an incredible collection of available new content! This includes 202 RealTracks (in Sets 449-467), plus 20 bonus Unreleased RealTracks in the 2025 49-PAK. There are new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 4, two new sets of “RealDrums Stems,” XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAK 19, and more!

Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 with savings of up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special—available until December 31, 2024! Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.

2025 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK
with some incredible Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Windows 2025 packages, but for even more Add-ons (including 20 Unreleased RealTracks!) upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.

If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us directly—we’re here to help!

Forum Statistics
Forums65
Topics83,798
Posts761,832
Members39,208
Most Online8,978
Newest Members
String Picker, Wayne N, Pierre Lescars, Lethal, FloHo
39,208 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
musocity 222
MarioD 170
Jim Fogle 111
jpettit 105
DC Ron 94
Today's Birthdays
martinL, Morgan Wright
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5