I've got a sax melody in the intro bars of the song, but I'd like to use a different sound for the vocal melody. Can I change the sound at a particular bar? I looked at Bar Settings, but found nothing.
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I've got a sax melody in the intro bars of the song, but I'd like to use a different sound for the vocal melody. Can I change the sound at a particular bar? I looked at Bar Settings, but found nothing.
Using MIDI: 1: Click function key <F5> of the desired bar, 2: Choose the track you want to have the change applied at, 3: Select a different patch.
Note that you cannot swap between MIDI and RealTracks this way within the same song.
Last edited by AudioTrack; 10/22/2411:50 AM.
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For Audio tracks, another way to achieve this is to use the Audio Editor with Utility Tracks. Generate the different parts you want and place them on Utility tracks, then use the Audio Edit window together with Volume Automation to mute / un-mute different tracks at the required locations.
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Audio Track's instructions for mixing audio tracks also works for midi tracks as well. The difference will be there won't be waveforms visible. However, automation works with midi the same as audio in all the tracks.
Also, if you need more tracks, if you use two or more tracks, midi or audio, it's possible to bounce the tracks to one stereo/mono track and free the other tracks to use to record new material.
Audio Track's instructions for mixing audio tracks also works for midi tracks as well. The difference will be there won't be waveforms visible. However, automation works with midi the same as audio in all the tracks.
Also, if you need more tracks, if you use two or more tracks, midi or audio, it's possible to bounce the tracks to one stereo/mono track and free the other tracks to use to record new material.
Not OP, is it possible to bounce audio tracks post-FX? How about if I want to adjust various parameters in a plugin on the fly, and have the affected audio (with all the parameter modulations), and basically record the output on another track as a receive?
DB09
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Audio Track's instructions for mixing audio tracks also works for midi tracks as well. The difference will be there won't be waveforms visible. However, automation works with midi the same as audio in all the tracks..
It would be an improvement if the MIDI data was displayed in the Audio Edit window, the same way that it is in the Tracks view display:
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dont jump all over me but ive posted my wishes previously.
i find jumping around tween views wastes a lot of time. in rb i can work mostly in tracks view. and would like the same for bb new fab tracks view... in summary bb tracks view becomes 'work central' with the same protocol as rb and some daws. (so its familiar to new bb users.)
ie ya wanna do 'anything' just hilite a section of a track then right clik (like some daws) and a list of editing//fx//generation//and other track features pop up. and if its a 'global' track command then right clik on the track name at left of a track in tracks view.
what i dont like about the current audio edit view is one cant see when editing all the other tracks so i lose 'perspective'. frankly audio edit view i feel should be done away with.
i believe new tracks view could be a 'market slayer' if the above were adopted. ie one central 'view'.
in fact and i know some might view this as heresy...so be it. BUT with the addition of chord and tempo and lyric and marker and automation tracks in fab new track view i would be dancing around the house. in this scenario essentially current chord and audio edit views would be redundant. i could do all in tracks view. even subtle stuff like applying a fx to just a section of a track or tuning a note or changeing the parameters of a midi track at various time points. i 'know' some may not want more 'daw features' in bb, but i feel this could just be a major magnet for new users....just my opinion....one work center view.
in summary the op's need re midi would be a breeze given the above scenario. just a doddle.
happiness.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 10/23/2403:21 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
And forgive me for a point of view expressed many times, changing the midi instrument is dead easy in RB where you can see lots of separate tracks and copy one track to another, cut bits you don't want and use the existing midi info to drive different instruments.
But I know switching to RB is not a route people want to follow.
The question was asked in the BIAB forum page. Yes, this can be done in RB, a DAW and elsewhere, but I don't think that was the question the O/P was asking.
Last edited by AudioTrack; 10/23/2409:23 AM.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Audio Track's instructions for mixing audio tracks also works for midi tracks as well. The difference will be there won't be waveforms visible. However, automation works with midi the same as audio in all the tracks.
Also, if you need more tracks, if you use two or more tracks, midi or audio, it's possible to bounce the tracks to one stereo/mono track and free the other tracks to use to record new material.
Not OP, is it possible to bounce audio tracks post-FX? How about if I want to adjust various parameters in a plugin on the fly, and have the affected audio (with all the parameter modulations), and basically record the output on another track as a receive?
DB09
Not sure what OP means and my apologies the answer may be a little off topic to the original question, but:
< is it possible to bounce audio tracks post-FX? > In BIAB? - Yes
< How about if I want to adjust various parameters in a plugin on the fly, and have the affected audio (with all the parameter modulations), and basically record the output on another track as a receive? >
Audio Track's instructions and my reply dealt with volume automation to create a multi track mix. Assume Audio Track created a mix using six Utility Tracks and volume automated mutes, return to normal and volume automation and panning, as well as adding dynamics, eq and Fx's to the tracks.
In BIAB, that six track mix can be converted to an Artist Performance File as a stereo mix residing on one track. The individual tracks can be saved or erased as desired so those tracks can be used for recording other instruments. Or, the mix can be recorded live in BIAB during playback as I demonstrate with the attached screen shot.
The screen shot is showing the live recording replacing the muted piano and guitar tracks. In other words, as the song played, everything except the desired mix tracks, piano and guitar, were routed and recorded back into the BIAB song. After the mix recording, the original piano and guitar tracks were muted and replaced by the stereo guitar/piano mix.
Audio Track's instructions for mixing audio tracks also works for midi tracks as well. The difference will be there won't be waveforms visible. However, automation works with midi the same as audio in all the tracks..
It would be an improvement if the MIDI data was displayed in the Audio Edit window, the same way that it is in the Tracks view display:
One thing in the difference is the midi block data doesn't provide the details a waveform does and also considering my background in mixing, recording, and live sound production, and others with similar background, it seems more a convenience than an improvement. Working with analog or digital mixers and stand alone digital hardware recorders, involves fader manipulation by ear not sight. It's also easy to mix with multiple fingers and maybe trying to track several tracks by sight may be distracting for me.
I would think a control surface more of an improvement for everybody with Tracks View.
sorry Audio Track - i know the post was in the BIAB forum but the point i was trying to make is that whilst you can do almost anything in BIAB, what the OP wanted to do is so easy in RB. I'm on a one man mission to ask people who have never even opened RB to take a look at the program they get for free which is actually simpler to use than BIAB - IMHO.
i know i'm not alone in switching to RB after generating a basic track in BIAB and appreciate that some users prefer to stay in BIAB to the very end.
As you say............."We can only hope. Maybe 2025? In the meantime, we can only work with what we've got. Also, not all users are highly skilled at mixing, especially dynamic mixing, and many would not have the required add-ons."
We've all got RB and it takes very little skill and no add ons to achieve what the OP wants to do in RB.
But whatever work flow works for individuals is up to them and BIAB is a truly amazing program.
All good, Bob. I use both, and I believe, like you, that RealBand offers many benefits. There is some reluctance from a few users, and it can sometimes be difficult to work out why.
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I've got a sax melody in the intro bars of the song, but I'd like to use a different sound for the vocal melody. Can I change the sound at a particular bar? I looked at Bar Settings, but found nothing.
Change the midi patch of a Track at a particular measure is possible by using a MultiStyle. In your circumstance, you would search MultiStyles in the StylePicker that had the two midi patches you want to use on the same track with all the other tracks remaining the same. You would use Part Markers to select which of the two Style and different soloist instrument to play across the measures you designate with Part Markers. For example one style plays sax and the second style plays Jazz Guitar while all other instruments and substyles remain the same.
You may not find the exact match. If you don't, use the current style to edit and save a User custom style, adding the second soloist to the same track by replacing the first and saving the new custom style to use in you MultiStyle. You create and edit styles in the StylePicker located under File Menu.
Rebuild the StylePicker so it will find your new style. Select the measure you want, Rt click on the Part Marker and select Define c/d The StylePicker will open, in the search type in the name you gave to your User Style, and select and load it, Change the Part Marker back to your a/b original style to end the solo of your song.
A BIAB song can have as many as 24 MultiStyles that can be used multiple times in your song. Using MultiStyles works the same with RealStyles and SuperMidi tracks too. It works with combining these different medias.
One last, sort of off-topic, comment here because the OP's request for multiple midi patches on a single track and BIAB's solution is such a clear demonstration of why converting BIAB into a DAW isn't as good an it's thought to be.
< JOAM: in rb i can work mostly in tracks view. and would like the same for bb new fab tracks view... in summary bb tracks view becomes 'work central' with the same protocol as rb and some daws. (so its familiar to new bb users.) >
< JOAM: in summary the op's need re midi would be a breeze given the above scenario. >
< BOB CALVER: And forgive me for a point of view expressed many times, changing the midi instrument is dead easy in RB where you can see lots of separate tracks and copy one track to another, cut bits you don't want and use the existing midi info to drive different instruments.
But I know switching to RB is not a route people want to follow. >
Yes, the solution to placing multiple midi patches on a single track is easy in RealBand. but it involves rendering multiple tracks of multiple instruments and copy and pasting between tracks.
In BIAB the solution to changing multiple midi patches on a single track is selecting another Style and setting Part Markers. Or, with a sound source like Coyote, use Bar Settings.
What's being missed from the DAW proponent's perspective is BIAB is driven by the Chord Sheet and the Chord Sheet and all the associated features and tools are non-linear. RealBand and all DAW's are linear.
I've attached screen shots of a BIAB constructed song SGU demo with seven Styles, each with two style variations. It's 128 bars of 14 styles composed of at least six different instrument changes to show the difference this makes between BIAB and a DAW creating the same song. To accentuate the drastic difference between non-linear and linear, there's a screen shot of bar settings that by adding just on chorus, allows for the second chorus to be change each Part Marker, instrument and add even more styles. BIAB can have ten more styles for this arrangement.
Open the demo in BIAB, and the song is very dynamic and interesting because it's constructed in non-linear manner using 14 Style variations and six soloist instruments.
Open the demo in RealBand with it's linear design, there are only two substyle in the song. All of the dynamics are missing becasuse the a/b styles don't feature any soloists. These would have to be input manually.
Even if the song is rendered in BIAB and the tracks exported and imported RealBand, to edit the tracks so the dynamics, style variations and soloists are the same as the single render MultiStyle done in BIAB, they have to be rendered individually for each instrument, style variation and edited manually.
Audition the demo to hear the comparison. If I were giving a BIAB demonstration to a potential new user, regardless their DAW experience or not, I think the BIAB demo render to be much more impressive than the RB demo render.
Point taken Charlie but the OP just wanted to change the midi instrument at a certain bar. As I've said in the past I'm just trying to recreate the small bands I used to play with - hence my needs are quite simple. I'm impressed with what you can achieve in BIAB!
Here's what the problem was: My melody track is using the Plogue Sforzando plugin, which does not support program change messages sent from BIAB.
I'm kind of annoyed, as I liked the sax sound from the HiQ MIDI sound that I used, but I suppose I should be more annoyed with Plogue Sforzando than with BIAB.
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Here's what the problem was: My melody track is using the Plogue Sforzando plugin, which does not support program change messages sent from BIAB.
I'm kind of annoyed, as I liked the sax sound from the HiQ MIDI sound that I used, but I suppose I should be more annoyed with Plogue Sforzando than with BIAB.
If you must stay in BiaB here is a workaround but it is a little tedious. Copy your melody track to the utility track(s) the number of times you want different sound, including your initial sound then mute the melody track. In either the notation view or the piano roll view delete the area you do not want that instrument to play. Do this for each utility track(s). Assign the SFZ sound your want for each utility track.
Have you ever noticed there are no lines to a bathroom at a water park?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Yes, right click on the track you want to move and select track action/copy move track. Then select the utility track that you want to move or copy the melody (or any track).
Have you ever noticed there are no lines to a bathroom at a water park?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Here's what the problem was: My melody track is using the Plogue Sforzando plugin, which does not support program change messages sent from BIAB.
I'm kind of annoyed, as I liked the sax sound from the HiQ MIDI sound that I used, but I suppose I should be more annoyed with Plogue Sforzando than with BIAB.
I've been presuming there's a reason why you want to change the instrument on one track, rather than having each instrument on its own track. If there isn't such a reason, you might consider that alternative.
If you expressly wand the single MIDI track and program changes, I believe you're correct that sforzando doesn't do that.
Some other sound engines do. A number of people use the VSTSynthFont64 that PGM quietly bundle with BiaB, but say little about ... it is in the manual, though. The recent versions claim to support SFZ files "... much better now". If that doesn't work out, there are some excellent free soundfonts that may offer a comparable sound to the sax you like. If all of those fail, there are also tools around that will convert SFZ to SF2, though I think I've never tried that.
HTH. Gordon.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2024 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
sorry Audio Track - i know the post was in the BIAB forum but the point i was trying to make is that whilst you can do almost anything in BIAB, what the OP wanted to do is so easy in RB. I'm on a one man mission to ask people who have never even opened RB to take a look at the program they get for free which is actually simpler to use than BIAB - IMHO.
i know i'm not alone in switching to RB after generating a basic track in BIAB and appreciate that some users prefer to stay in BIAB to the very end.
As you say............."We can only hope. Maybe 2025? In the meantime, we can only work with what we've got. Also, not all users are highly skilled at mixing, especially dynamic mixing, and many would not have the required add-ons."
We've all got RB and it takes very little skill and no add ons to achieve what the OP wants to do in RB.
But whatever work flow works for individuals is up to them and BIAB is a truly amazing program.
No problem Bob. I'm sure you understand what I said and demonstrated, but I'm not sure you got my point. Most opinions you, OM and other DAW proponents commonly assert are true and I have no issues with them. What's lacking with your point of view in not only this discussion, but all DAW/BIAB comparison discussions, is there's never a presentation outlining the differences to how BIAB does a task as compared to the steps in a DAW. There's a huge difference between BIAB being a non-linear software that's based around the Chord Sheet for user input and display - to all DAWs, including RealBand being linear software for input and display. This difference obfuscates what are advantages compared to disadvantages between the two systems.
To do the task in this post using BIAB's default midi sound engine or MultiStyles, requires no mixing or add-on's, so no such skills would be necessary and it would be accomplished within the program and take little time, without losing any of BIAB's tools, features, Styles or instruments.
"I'm impressed with what you can achieve in BIAB"
My point is to impress upon and other DAW advocates, what -you- can achieve in BIAB.
The example demo I posted simply requires anyone curious to what I've just explained, to hear the difference by opening and playing the demo SGU file in BIAB and then Opening and playing the same demo file in RealBand.
Using the steps with either BIAB solution presented to this simple problem, using BIAB, it's possible to quickly, efficiently and without advanced or even moderate mixing and arranging skills, for BIAB to create quite a complex arrangement in seconds without manual manipulation, multiple instrument track generations, exterior programs- RB or other DAWs.
I didn't really have a good reason to change the instrument on one track, except that both were the melody, and I realized that I didn't like the vocal melody played by the sax. Not having inuitive ways to copy/paste to different tracks is unhelpful, and including a function to change MIDI sounds within a track *but* *only* *under* *certain* *undocumented* *circumstances* certainly detracts from timely workflow. How was I to know that Plogue Sforzando sounds are off limits for changing a MIDI sound? If we're expected to just have different instruments on separate tracks, why is there a function to change the MIDI sound within a track at all?
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I try hard to be a consensus builder and discuss topics in a friendly collegial fashion. it really disturbs me when someone suggests a particular aspect of a pg music app or all of it is c**p. like some comments weve seen over the years on these forums.
i always disagree with such comments because pg apps are very powerfull tools. one only has to see the benefits eg the user showcase plus music education institutions plus commercial songs and adverts and things like songs for films etc etc.
the problem for some new users, and i agree with rob helms is that word 'familiarity'. these are very very deep products because pg i suspect is trying to cater to a very diverse user base world wide with many different needs. (like we used to have when i worked in tech.;..its darn difficult to keep everyone happy.) because of how deep feature wise these products are imho users must commit to 'dive right in with both feet' in order to get the best from these apps. like charlie and many other users.
it worries me that 'lurkers' in the background who might be potential buyers might run for the hills on reading negative comments and thus lose products that could really help their song creation endeavours. thus we all suffer...pg included. pg loses revenue and possibly we all lose great new features or such features might be delayed.
i'm a half glass full kinda guy and i know all of us want to continue to see pg be successfull. thus i laud those pg users that devote their time to helping new users.
what i DO think is there is an urgent need for is a chart rather like the pg packages chart showing feature differences tween bb and rb. this i feel would clear up any confusion for new users. because this seems to crop up occasionally.
there also great 'synergy' a user can realise by using bb and rb together rather than an either or. for example ive done lots of songs whereby ive used bb to generate 'song bed tracks' which ive then dragged over into rb for its advantages. although i use the great reaper less these days due to advances in rb... reaps AND bb AND rb all support drag and drop. so there is another synergy option. (or useing any non pg daw that supports D n'D....lol.)
i suggested rb with regard to the op need cos i just find i can move chunks of midi and audio data around easier in rb and many midi features... eg as in i like that drum fill at bar 48 and want it for bar 55...sorta idea. i often wonder how many users have discovered tricks in rb bars view for example. this is not to belittle bb which i hope will get more daw like features. (but i know some disagree with this. and of course its their right. i just feel that bb new fab tracks view could be a market slayer with not ALL dawlike features maybe with the nost important ones. for example i'm not expecting spectral editing daw features in bb.)
bottom line yes bb has lots of nice features but so does rb. i try to take advantage of the plusses of each.
Funk as has been pointed out maybe look at rb sometime for lots of midi features i cant go into as i would be typing a book. see the pg rb manual on this site to see how rb might be usefull to you.
happiness.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 10/25/2408:40 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
............................................ How was I to know that Plogue Sforzando sounds are off limits for changing a MIDI sound? If we're expected to just have different instruments on separate tracks, why is there a function to change the MIDI sound within a track at all?
Actually most of the good MIDI sound sources have one patch/sound per track.
The reason there are program changes, that is changes of sounds, per track as all GM sound sources can utilize them. Your problem is that Plogue Sforzando is not a GM sound source. If you want or need program changes and want better sounds than what comes with BiaB then I advise you get a soundfont player. Many GM soundfonts (SF2s) sound better.
PS - I use the BiaB sounds as a scratch pad. Once I have the song the way I want it I drag and drop the MIDI to my DAW, Studio One Pro, and utilize my much better sounds. It does take a little time but the results are worth it, at least to me.
Have you ever noticed there are no lines to a bathroom at a water park?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
< If we're expected to just have different instruments on separate tracks, why is there a function to change the MIDI sound within a track at all? >
With live applications, midi channels 1-16 can be routed to one port. Midi devices have Midi in and Midi out for routing. In live applications, it's called daisy chain, it allows two or more midi devices to be combined. Sometimes you'll a keyboard player with three or more keyboards on stage.
In BIAB, channels 1-16 can be on one track. Prior to the introduction of Utility Tracks, BIAB only had seven tracks, with midi and using channels, more than seven instruments could be used in a song.
Also prior to the introduction of Utility Tracks, BIAB included this same concept for audio files. Although there were only seven BIAB tracks and one Audio track, the seven tracks had a proprietary method to convert audio tracks so they could reside on any track, not just the Audio Track. When RealTracks came along, BIAB put this function on all seven tracks. Each track has a ten channel sub-mixer window for placing multiple RealTracks that can be configured multiple ways. Today, with Utility Tracks, a song can have 264 RealTrack instruments if all of the sub-mixer tracks are used.
Multiple midi and multiple RealTracks are available today on all 24 BIAB Mixer Tracks.
As others have pointed out every soft synth has strengths and weaknesses. Some soft synths are multi-timbrel and polyphonic. Others are mono-timbrel and polyphonic or mono-timbrel and monophonic.
Multi-timbral soft synths can produce two or more timbres (also called sounds or patches) at the same time. Soft synth examples include the Microsoft GS Wavetable included in most Microsoft Windows editions, the PG Music modified VSTSynthFont64 Gordon Scott mentions, Coyote WT included with Band-in-a-Box and the no longer available for download Cakewalk TTS-1 Peter Gannon recommended in another post. Hardware instruments also can be multi-timbral such as many consumer electronic keyboards, synthesizers, samplers, and music workstations.
The PG Music provided multi-timbrel soft synths use the General MIDI, or GM, patch list to associate patch names with patch numbers. That way a guitar is always a guitar and a piano is always a piano for example.
Normally you want to select a multi-timbrel soft synth in the Band-in-a-Box Synthesizer/Sound Card selection. (Ctrl+E > MIDI Driver) See 2nd screen shot.
Multi-timbrel soft synths are also polyphonic meaning they can play more than one note at a time. However there are also Monophonic soft synths that are multi-timbrell. Plogue Sforzando plugin is an example.
There are also monophonic soft synths that can only play one note at a time but this is not the place to discuss them.
Look at the screen shots below and you may find it easier to understand what the settings are and how they are associated in Band-in-a-Box.
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Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box version 2024 is here with 200 brand new styles to take for a spin!
Along with 50 new styles each for the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, we’ve put together a collection of styles using sounds from the SynthMaster plugin!
In this PAK you'll find: dubby reggae grooves, rootsy Americana, LA jazz pop, driving pop rock, mellow electronica, modern jazz fusion, spacey country ballads, Motown shuffles, energetic EDM, and plenty of synth heavy grooves! Xtra Style PAK 18 features these styles and many, many more!
Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 18 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Expand your Band-in-a-Box 2024® library with Xtra Styles PAK 18! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 18 here.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 18 requires the 2024 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box version 2024 is here with 200 brand new styles to take for a spin!
Along with 50 new styles each for the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, we’ve put together a collection of styles using sounds from the SynthMaster plugin!
In this PAK you'll find: dubby reggae grooves, rootsy Americana, LA jazz pop, driving pop rock, mellow electronica, modern jazz fusion, spacey country ballads, Motown shuffles, energetic EDM, and plenty of synth heavy grooves! Xtra Style PAK 18 features these styles and many, many more!
Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 18 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Expand your Band-in-a-Box 2024® library with Xtra Styles PAK 18! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 18 here.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 18 requires the 2024 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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