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How to enter a 5/4 melody? #826566 10/24/24 12:33 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2014 Posts: 61 Paris (France) Lazy Bird OP Enthusiast
OP Lazy Bird Enthusiast Joined: Dec 2014 Posts: 61 Paris (France)	Hello, I've got Band-in-a-Box 2020 for Windows. I want to enter a 5-beat melody, but, as everyone knows, Band-in-a-Box only offers 2, 3 or 4-beat bars. On the other hand, Band in a Box offers a 5-beat style: -J54E8+ Even 5/4 Meter. When I listen to this style for a few bars, I can clearly hear the 5 beats played in the 4/4 bar. But I don't see how to easily enter the melody on 5 beats: in the bar each beat is divided into 4, and, for a melody in eighth notes, I don't have the 20 divisions I need. Do I have to manually divide each beat into 5? But, unless I'm mistaken, it is not possible to do this automatically for the entire song, and if I have to do it bar by bar, I'll be there for hours...! And the display of the melody in the notation sheet will be terrible! What other solutions have you found? Lazy Bird

Re: How to enter a 5/4 melody? Lazy Bird #826570 10/24/24 02:44 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 19,531 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 19,531 Melbourne, Australia	I'm afraid I don't really know the answer. I've looked at the way BIAB handles 5/4 and it definitely shows exactly 4 beats to the bar, but played as 5 beats to the bar, so this is somewhat of a conundrum as to how to actually correctly enter 5 beat notation. Others may know more, but I think you are exactly right in saying that the maximum number of beats to a bar is 4 in the BIAB product. BIAB appears to divide 4 beats into 5 intervals (or something like that). Bottom line, it doesn't follow any defined music rules, it's some sort of awkward workaround. This is with the demo song 54_EVEN.STY loaded (Gimmie Five): It won't allow 5 to be entered for the number of beats. BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: How to enter a 5/4 melody? AudioTrack #826573 10/24/24 04:00 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 3,087 J justanoldmuso Veteran
justanoldmuso Veteran J Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 3,087	LB. (note odd time sigs eg 5/4 = OTS.) re OTS. ive done quite a lot of testing of ots in various music apps. there was a thread awhile back about such but sorry ive forgotten the link . it might be of some interest if you can locate it and would save me retyping. but as to pg products i found for me rb very usefull for various reasons rather than bb. one aspect re rb i liked was in rb tracks view i could see the divisions in the bar graphically. i found generally doing ots's was easier in rb. just make sure and this is important obviously to set rb time sig to 5/4 and your desired tempo there are many ways you could enter the melody in rb. (see the manual to save me typing oodles.) how do you want to enter the melody ? via piano roll ? via midi keyboard ? via genning a midi rt or a audio rt and doing editing to get it the way you want ? via notation ? there are many methods in rb. (note...i'm useless at notation so probably i would gen a midi in rb as a starting point or several midi's in rb then comp/edit to get a final melody i was happy with and then midi to audio via a plug inand do the same with audio tracks till i got things the way i wanted. i would do this comping/final assembly in rb as rb has tons of tracks.) please post back your preferred work method re creating the melody. i dont know how much the above helps you but bottom line when it comes to ots i found rb easier re creating a ots song. but maybe you dont want to go through learning a new app. at the very least i would read the rb manual on this pg site (also included with the shipped software) and run tests with your work methods and see if rb will make things easier.(note rb has also a very usefull 'tips of the day feature'.) happiness. om Last edited by justanoldmuso; 10/24/24 04:01 AM. my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)

Re: How to enter a 5/4 melody? Lazy Bird #826577 10/24/24 04:49 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,302 Australia Noel96 Veteran
Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,302 Australia	Hi Lazy Bird. BIAB does make it easy enough to create a 5/4 song, but the melody and accompaniment need to be split over two bars: one 3/4 bar and one 2/4 bar. If you click on "Edit" (#1 on the image) and then select "Set Time Signature (#2)", the option to set 5/4 (#3) will appear. When this 5/4 option is selected and OK is pressed, the chord sheet of 3/4 and 2/4 alternating time signatures will be created. The downside of this is that it's necessary to think of two bars on the chordsheet creating a single bar of 5/4. I hear the rhythmic stresses in 5/4 as "strong-weak weak, medium-weak". For this reason, when I select a style to go with this time signature, I use a 3/4 one since that gives me the rhythmic feel that works for me. That said, 4/4 Realtracks and Realdrums can also be used, and these create a different feel. The SGU file below with give you an indication of how a 3/4 style sounds. SGU file in 5/4 using a waltz style (link) I hope this helps with ideas. --Noel P.S. OM is right about Realband. That program has a proper 5/4 time signature, and it is worth investigating. MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2024 audios on Soundcloud

Re: How to enter a 5/4 melody? Noel96 #826600 10/24/24 08:19 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 3,087 J justanoldmuso Veteran
justanoldmuso Veteran J Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 3,087	LB. (LB...note 5/4 ruff demo deleted as no reply...if you want 5/4 examples just ask and i'll upload in what ever 5/4 style you want with one shot vocs.). heres your 5/4 style plus some ruff one shot vocals which prolly suck...lol...done in realband to prove rb will do the job. took 10 mins . (deleted) RB piano roll...tracks view...work with 5/4. not notation it seems.... i'll leave the soundcloud 5/4 demo up for one day or so. hth/happiness. @noel...nice detail. om Last edited by justanoldmuso; 10/25/24 03:54 AM. my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)

Re: How to enter a 5/4 melody? AudioTrack #828304 11/13/24 11:43 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2014 Posts: 61 Paris (France) Lazy Bird OP Enthusiast
OP Lazy Bird Enthusiast Joined: Dec 2014 Posts: 61 Paris (France)	Hello AudioTrack, Sorry for the late reply: my schedule didn't allow me to get back to Band-in-a-Box as quickly as I wanted 😊 ! Thanks for the screenshots of "Gimmie Five", the 5/4 demo track ... which is also a great example of polyrhythmic composition since if the rhythm expressed in particular by the drums is in 5 beats, the melody remains in 4 beats ! Clearly, the solution adopted by Band-in-a-Box for the drums is to position a beat every 96 MIDI ticks: - In the list of MIDI events, the lyrics that underline the drum beats (1, 2, 3, 1, 2) are always separated by 96 ticks, or one fifth of the 480 ticks that make up a 4-beat MIDI measure (note: they are positioned a little before the drum beat, probably for display reasons). - When you play the song by opening the "Big Lyrics" window, you can clearly see by looking at the scrolling of the lyrics (1, 2, 3, 1, 2) that the main beats of the drums are positioned on these 5 beats Obviously, this system is not at all suitable for manually entering a 5-beat melody: since a measure has 480 ticks, you would have to enter the sixteenth notes at positions that are multiples of 24 ticks (480 divided by 5 then divided by 4), the eighth notes at positions that are multiples of 48 ticks, the quarter notes at positions that are multiples of 96 ticks, etc. ... while there are no clear markers for 5 beats in the measure! And even if we succeed, the display of the melody in the notation window or in the leadsheet is unreadable because Band in a Box does not correctly display notes separated by gaps that are not multiples of 30 (duration of the sixteenth note in a beat of 120 ticks). Lazy Bird

Re: How to enter a 5/4 melody? justanoldmuso #828305 11/13/24 11:46 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2014 Posts: 61 Paris (France) Lazy Bird OP Enthusiast
OP Lazy Bird Enthusiast Joined: Dec 2014 Posts: 61 Paris (France)	Hello justanoldmuso, Sorry for the late reply: my schedule didn't allow me to get back to Band-in-a-Box as quickly as I wanted 😊 ! I usually enter melodies by hand in the notation window, and, indeed, I am one of those who try to do everything with a single application, in this case Band in a Box: as I am not a great technophile, I do not want to spend time learning multiple software, and I noticed, when I tried to get to grips with Realband, that there were a number of differences in settings with Band in a Box. The difficulty in finding my way around from the start dissuaded me from going further! That being said, thank you for letting me know that you can easily enter 5/4 in Realband. Maybe one day, I will have the courage or the desire to get started! Lazy Bird

Re: How to enter a 5/4 melody? Noel96 #828307 11/13/24 11:49 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2014 Posts: 61 Paris (France) Lazy Bird OP Enthusiast
OP Lazy Bird Enthusiast Joined: Dec 2014 Posts: 61 Paris (France)	Hello Noel96, Sorry for the late reply: my schedule didn't allow me to get back to Band-in-a-Box as quickly as I wanted 😊! Thanks for this information on the "Set Time Signature" function that I didn't know about! I knew that I could get the equivalent of a 5/4 measure with a 3/4 measure and a 2/4 measure, but I was discouraged by the idea of having to enter a "# Beats This Bar" 64 times for a 32-bar song (in the meantime, I discovered that I only had to do it for 2 measures and copy these measures!). Thanks also for the idea of using 3-beat styles instead: in the few cases where I have 5/4 songs I will also test 3/4 styles to find the most suitable style. On that last point, though: when I opened the SGU file you sent me as an example, the style that appears is labeled ">ZZJAZZ.STY Jazz Swing Style". Isn't that a 4/4 style? Last edited by Lazy Bird; 11/13/24 11:50 AM. Lazy Bird

Re: How to enter a 5/4 melody? Lazy Bird #828310 11/13/24 12:16 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,302 Australia Noel96 Veteran
Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,302 Australia	Quote On that last point, though: when I opened the SGU file you sent me as an example, the style that appears is labeled ">ZZJAZZ.STY Jazz Swing Style". Isn't that a 4/4 style? It sounds like your collection of Realtracks/Styles didn't include those that I used. When a song is loaded if nothing similar is found, BIAB defaults to the ZZJAZZ.STY so that the song can load. This setting is found under "Preferences \| Arrange". I was hoping that I'd chosen friendly enough Realtracks and Style so that that wouldn't happen. It seems I was unlucky. The attached image shows the chordsheet for the 5/4 song I put together. --Noel Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) 5-4 chordsheet set up.jpg (214.48 KB, 57 downloads) MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2024 audios on Soundcloud

Re: How to enter a 5/4 melody? Noel96 #828312 11/13/24 12:55 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2014 Posts: 61 Paris (France) Lazy Bird OP Enthusiast
OP Lazy Bird Enthusiast Joined: Dec 2014 Posts: 61 Paris (France)	Originellement posté par Noel96 It sounds like your collection of Realtracks/Styles didn't include those that I used. When a song is loaded if nothing similar is found, BIAB defaults to the ZZJAZZ.STY so that the song can load. This setting is found under "Preferences \| Arrange". I was hoping that I'd chosen friendly enough Realtracks and Style so that that wouldn't happen. It seems I was unlucky. The attached image shows the chordsheet for the 5/4 song I put together. --Noel My version of Band in a Box is from 2020 and apparently I don't have _IRIS.STY. But thanks for the idea: I can already listen to your file with lots of other styles at 3/4. Also, I'm going to buy the 2025 version of BiaB soon and I'll be able to listen to the file you sent me properly! Have a good day. Lazy Bird

Re: How to enter a 5/4 melody? Lazy Bird #828463 11/15/24 02:36 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,302 Australia Noel96 Veteran
Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,302 Australia	By the way, LB.. Here is how the song sounded using the _IRIS style. I haven't modified it in any way. 5/4 song file using _IRIS.STY MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2024 audios on Soundcloud

Re: How to enter a 5/4 melody? Noel96 #828506 11/15/24 07:08 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2014 Posts: 61 Paris (France) Lazy Bird OP Enthusiast
OP Lazy Bird Enthusiast Joined: Dec 2014 Posts: 61 Paris (France)	Originellement posté par Noel96 By the way, LB.. Here is how the song sounded using the _IRIS style. I haven't modified it in any way. Thanks a lot, Noel 96. That sounds pretty good! Lazy Bird

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