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I always run my RME ASIO driver at a 48K sample rate with a buffer size of 128. ALL of my other audio software (DAWs, standalone virtual instruments, performance apps, notation software, etc.) are configured for 48K. When I run BiaB, it not only forces the sample rate to 44.1K, but somehow locks the RME driver into that sample rate, so I can't change it back to 48K.

In BiaB's Audio properties window, it says that 48K is a supported sample rate, but I can't find where to set BiaB to 48K.

Help please!

Last edited by TheMaartian; 10/28/24 12:46 AM.

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M.

what is win os sound set to ? recording and playback...44.1 ? or 48 ?
i understand bb is happy with 44.1 so i use that.
bb prolly defaults to the win os setting....

i ensure always the interface and the desktop app for it and win os are 44.1 .

Last edited by justanoldmuso; 10/28/24 03:58 AM.

my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..)
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Originally Posted by TheMaartian
I always run my RME ASIO driver at a 48K sample rate with a buffer size of 128. ALL of my other audio software (DAWs, standalone virtual instruments, performance apps, notation software, etc.) are configured for 48K. When I run BiaB, it not only forces the sample rate to 44.1K, but somehow locks the RME driver into that sample rate, so I can't change it back to 48K.

In BiaB's Audio properties window, it says that 48K is a supported sample rate, but I can't find where to set BiaB to 48K.

Help please!
As I understand this, BiaB supports 44.1kHz internally and will use a sample-rate convertor if the hardware does not support 44.1kHz. If the hardware supports 44.1kHz, BiaB will change it to that rate. I believe there is no option to choose 48kHz elsewhere than for the final rendering.
This has been a long-standing criticism of BiaB.

Quite what happens if, for example, BiaB refuses to use 48kHz and some other software refuses to use 44.1kHz, I know not.

I rather hope someone will tell me I'm wrong and behind the current situation, but I think I'm not.


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There's a post here from Simon that might help:
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=655362#Post655362

From the FAQ:
Quote
You might try changing the 'ASIO always on' setting in the Band-in-a-Box® ASIO Audio Drivers dialog to OFF. The ideal setting is ON, because this allows low latency play-thru while the song is stopped, however it may cause problems with some drivers when always on. Also, try setting the resampler quality to Fast. Band-in-a-Box® plays audio at 44.1 KHz sample rate, but some ASIO drivers only support higher sample rates, so Band-in-a-Box® automatically resamples the audio to the native format of the ASIO driver. Fast will use less processing power.
... suggests that if you can use WAS or MME, BiaB should be compatible with 48kHz hardware and if you must use ASIO, changing the resampler rate might help.

Last edited by Gordon Scott; 10/28/24 05:12 AM. Reason: added a bit.

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Gordon.

tell me if the following makes sense or not as to bb and
48k and asio.

1..it might seem on the surface that as other music apps
support 48k asio bb should.
however...
2..maybe..and only pg can answer on this (and tell me i'm full
of it...lol.) at the programming code level in bb there is the fact
that bb is executing auto accompany features which the other music apps arent.
sooo...its easier in typical daw apps ?
dunno.

the tecchy in me would love to know.

do you think i'm wrong gordon


i DO know lots of people want 48k due to video work.
the problem with was driver is that it has higher
latency...

there are various articles on the net re asio vs wasapi.

eg...

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/roland-difference-between-asio-wdm-mme-drivers/?msockid=174d8d37e56467091e9399dde4ce667b

just google. as i understand it wasapi is great if only a playback environment but for recording asio is preferable due to lower latency.




happiness.

om

Last edited by justanoldmuso; 10/28/24 06:48 AM.

my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..)
https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs
(90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
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Having started to try to answer this, I'm now begining to doubt my own understanding of it.
I'm starting to wonder if I'm talking nonsense by getting two or three different aspects of BiaB's behaviour mixed up.
The ambiguity of the manual et al doesn't help.

Yes, I think we need an answer or steer from PGM.

Maniacal LOL ... well it is almost Hallowe'en. laugh


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Originally Posted by justanoldmuso
M.

what is win os sound set to ? recording and playback...44.1 ? or 48 ?
i understand bb is happy with 44.1 so i use that.
bb prolly defaults to the win os setting....

i ensure always the interface and the desktop app for it and win os are 44.1 .
I have Windows configured for 48K, the same as my RME ASIO driver. I have Windows configured to use the Main outputs of the Fireface for audio output. So, those settings match, until I run BiaB, which gives me a message in one of those little yellow boxes in the lower right of the BiaB windows, telling me that the audio interfaces settings have been changed.


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Originally Posted by Gordon Scott
Originally Posted by TheMaartian
I always run my RME ASIO driver at a 48K sample rate with a buffer size of 128. ALL of my other audio software (DAWs, standalone virtual instruments, performance apps, notation software, etc.) are configured for 48K. When I run BiaB, it not only forces the sample rate to 44.1K, but somehow locks the RME driver into that sample rate, so I can't change it back to 48K.

In BiaB's Audio properties window, it says that 48K is a supported sample rate, but I can't find where to set BiaB to 48K.

Help please!
As I understand this, BiaB supports 44.1kHz internally and will use a sample-rate convertor if the hardware does not support 44.1kHz. If the hardware supports 44.1kHz, BiaB will change it to that rate. I believe there is no option to choose 48kHz elsewhere than for the final rendering.
This has been a long-standing criticism of BiaB.

Quite what happens if, for example, BiaB refuses to use 48kHz and some other software refuses to use 44.1kHz, I know not.

I rather hope someone will tell me I'm wrong and behind the current situation, but I think I'm not.
OK, but then what does this mean (what the red arrow is pointing to)?

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by TheMaartian; 10/28/24 08:24 AM.

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One of the reasons I spent 1 400 € to replace my PreSonus 1810c with an RME Fireface UCX II for their superb multi-client ASIO driver. But with BiaB changing the sample rate of my ASIO driver, if I try to run something else at the same time, it'll throw up a config error or (horror of horrors), change it's own sample rate setting to 44.1K, leaving me to sort through that after the fact.

I'm not too happy about this, but big thanks to those of you replying to my question and helping out!

Last edited by TheMaartian; 10/28/24 08:30 AM.

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Contact PGM via their on-line chat or email support@
Perhaps Simon or someone with similar knowledge can help.

What I can say with confidence is that with my Focusrire device, if I change my driver from WAS to ASIO, BiaB changes the device's 48kHz sample rate to 44.1kHz, despite the resampling set to "Best".


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M and Gordon.

i use an audient interface with multiclient driver ...nary a prob in any music app.

i set it to 48k asio. nope.no go...it gets reset to 44.1k.

so Mr M same prob here....i get a bb message... 44.1 fine.

Mr M...you asked why in bb asio 48k is listed at bottom.
same here BUT i believe that asio dialog just lists the interface/driver capabilities.
i may be wrong but it doesnt necessarily mean that bb can utilise 48k ?

now heres a 'likkle wrinkle' ...and i might be out to lunch as i use only 44.1 whether bb or rb or reaps v2 that i also use...

in my dim getting older memory did someone mention once 48 k can be used in rb ?
but maybe i'm wrong.
i'm busy with songs right ...and dont wanna muck around with my settings...
but if your feeling bold Mr M see if you get the same 48k prob in rb.
i would be curious.

i feel on this pg site...a memo/sticky re this issue be issued as i'm sure this is gonna crop up again..
particularly with new users i guess.

happiness.

om

Last edited by justanoldmuso; 10/28/24 05:05 PM.

my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..)
https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs
(90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
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Originally Posted by justanoldmuso
M and Gordon.

i use an audient interface with multiclient driver ...nary a prob in any music app.

i set it to 48k asio. nope.no go...it gets reset to 44.1k.

so Mr M same prob here....i get a bb message... 44.1 fine.

Mr M...you asked why in bb asio 48k is listed at bottom.
same here BUT i believe that asio dialog just lists the interface/driver capabilities.
i may be wrong but it doesnt necessarily mean that bb can utilise 48k ?

now heres a 'likkle wrinkle' ...and i might be out to lunch as i use only 44.1 whether bb or rb or reaps v2 that i also use...

in my dim getting older memory did someone mention once 48 k can be used in rb ?
but maybe i'm wrong.
i'm busy with songs right ...and dont wanna muck around with my settings...
but if your feeling bold Mr M see if you get the same 48k prob in rb.
i would be curious.

i feel on this pg site...a memo/sticky re this issue be issued as i'm sure this is gonna crop up again..
particularly with new users i guess.

happiness.

om
OK, I switched BiaB to WAS (always) audio. Now, my ASIO driver remains at 48K, and BiaB uses 48K for both Input and Output audio, even though audio output is going to the monitors connected to my RME audio interface. [shrug]

I don't understand, but I'm happy now! Thanks everyone!

P.S. I don't even install RealBand. Since I use Bitwig and Studio One, both of which support the BiaB plugin, I don't need it. Also, I'd been using Reaper for over 10 years, but I hadn't even opened it since getting Bitwig 5, so I uninstalled it. Was installing Reaper completely as simple and easy as installing it? Nope. It took me over 30 minutes just to clean up all of the Reaper entries in the Windows Registry. Over 30 freaking minutes! Unbelievable. There were entries for every single update to Reaper since the first version of v4 that I installed. And I was on the latest version of Reaper 7 when I uninstalled it. Lordy, but that was time-consuming and irritating.

Last edited by TheMaartian; 10/29/24 02:30 AM.

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Originally Posted by TheMaartian
OK, I switched BiaB to WAS (always) audio. Now, my ASIO driver remains at 48K, and BiaB uses 48K for both Input and Output audio, even though audio output is going to the monitors connected to my RME audio interface. [shrug]

I don't understand, but I'm happy now! Thanks everyone!
OK, well that's good at least. Hopefully you'll also still get the low-latency you expect.


Originally Posted by justanoldmuso
Mr M...you asked why in bb asio 48k is listed at bottom.

same here BUT i believe that asio dialog just lists the interface/driver capabilities.
i may be wrong but it doesnt necessarily mean that bb can utilise 48k ?
I'd also been thinking device capability, but for my device it lists 22050<no>, 44100<yes>, 48000<yes> and 96000<yes>, but not the 88200 that it also supports. I don't see 22050 in the USB audio specs, though there's a lot to search.

My guess on this is that BiaB enquires only about sample rates it can handle directly or with the resampler, then uses the "directly" 44.1kHz if available or the resampler only if 44.1kHz is not available.

It seems to me very remiss to force a sample rate on the user, especially if there's a resampler built in. I guess PGM would argue that no resampling gives better audio quality, which is probably true but not necessarily helpful.


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M and Gordon.weeeelll...lol..
(ive gone into a bit of detail in case potential new users are reading this topic.)

heres a perspective on things i suspect that are going on.
please feel free to tell me i'm a 'stupid A'....

1..in a typical daw there arent the same 'wrinkles' as bb.
one isnt comparing apples to apples. a typical daw isnt 'stitching together' bits from
a library of content...whereas...
2..bb is building tracks by 'stitching together' from a lib of content.

given the above if the content lib is set to a different sampling rate than the users preferred sample rate then obviously the added wrinkle is resampling routines right ?
this might lead to lag if the user is regenerating lots of tracks on a clunky pc ?
an added wrinkly is the driver technology and the users choice of interface which pg have no control over (same with the win OS.).

in summary for the poor app coder in some ways he/she is in a catch 22 due to limitations placed on he/she.

now what i'm wondering is how big the latency when regenerating oodles of tracks when the app doesnt have to resample the library content (cos sample rate is same as users set sample rate) versus when the app must resample cos the library content is a DIFFERENT sampling rate than the users sample rate set in preferences. so in the former case all is fine if content lib is 44.1 and user 44.1.
in second case content lib is 44.1k but users is 48k.
see what i mean ? does the resampling process introduce added latency due to the coder haveing to call up resampling routines ?

given the above we know that asio is lower latency than wasapi.
so the added wrinkle is what added impact does this have ?
as i said from my looking at things it seems that wasapi is fine for playback environments but asio beats it for recording.
also i'm wondering in conclusion if bb had oodles of tracks...lets take 38 for example to regenerate how much lag would be introduced whereby the users set sample rate was the SAME as the content lib versus when the users sample rate is DIFFERENT than the content libray <<< so resampling is needed.

i hope i make some sense.

Mr M. re reaps. hmm never given me a prob.
(actually i'm useing it less and less these days due to rb recent improvements.
i dont use bb plugin as rb for me has way more features. i just D n D from rb to other apps.
re Bitwig <<< interesting daw. particularly re the clap plugin implementation that apparently is better than vst ??. frankly i'm intrigued by some of the things that
multitrackstudio.com is doing includeing cross platform plus ipad support.
i really like how so many great features have been implemented within such a small
exe footprint. (btw what latency is reported for your new RME interface ?
RME is good kit. i'm very happy with audient (love the drivers) around 4ms asio here.)

happiness.

om

Last edited by justanoldmuso; 10/29/24 04:16 AM.

my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..)
https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs
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As PG Music are the ultimate experts on this, it would be good if they could chime in with some definitive suggestions on how to really resolve the O/P's issue. They often come on board with the right answers when we all spend much time and experimenting with efforts that might only be guesses at best.

PGM?

Last edited by AudioTrack; 10/29/24 05:28 AM.

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Originally Posted by justanoldmuso
M and Gordon.weeeelll...lol..
(ive gone into a bit of detail in case potential new users are reading this topic.)

...
(btw what latency is reported for your new RME interface ? RME is good kit.
...
With a 48K sample rate and a block size of 128 samples, Bitwig is reporting a latency of 2.67 mS. Pretty darn good!


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Mr M and Gordon and all.

well this is interesting...AND WORKS !!

1..i set win plus my interface plus realband (rb) to default
48 k. and rb is ASIO.

2..then i genned backing tracks and recorded a scratch vocal in rb.

all good...this is freaking me out. why probs with bb
but not rb ?

ive rechecked my settings several times...yep...
48k asio works.

maybe someone else can confirm...rharv ? rob ?
other rb users ?

now i'm wondering if ive got a false postive...lol...
so i would be gratefull if someone would check that in fact in
rb 48k asio works.

Mr M...yes impressive low latency. i could push it lower with audient
but i dont bother as all is copacetic.
i understand the internal latency of my audient is less than 1ms.

this whole thing is freaky.
simon ...if your reading this am i correct that 48k asio is no prob
in rb but a prob in bb ?
if i'm correct then for people doing sound for 48k video
then rb is a better bet for genning tracks ?
i'm getting no warnings here or crashes with 48k asio.
go figure.

maybe i'll get egg on my face..
just concerned as i get older i might miss something...lol.
Mr M if you could do a test in rb 48k asio i would love to know
if it works fine with the rme <<<< excellent product.

happiness.

om

ps what is freaking me out is i thouight rb uses in the background the bb generation engine ? theres some goofy stuff going on. but if truly rb works asio 48k then this should be pointed out in a faq for people doing 48 k work and tracks for video work....its a big plus for rb.
dont ya love tech ?...lmao.

Last edited by justanoldmuso; 10/29/24 10:42 AM.

my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..)
https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs
(90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
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Originally Posted by justanoldmuso
all good...this is freaking me out. why probs with bb
but not rb ?
I think the short answer is because PGM elected to handle the two tools differently. A policy difference or oversight in BiaB.

PGM say BiaB will resample if the device does not support 44.1kH, but they don't say what will happen if the device does supoport 44.1kHz. The answer on BiaB appears to be "change the interface data rate to 44.1kHz".

Originally Posted by justanoldmuso
ps what is freaking me out is i thouight rb uses in the background the bb generation engine ?
But probably then resamples just before passing the data to the device.


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Gordon.

i think your onto something.
my concern is for a new non tech user trying to figure out things when even us techs are wrestling with trying to figure it all out.
or maybe as i get older...lol...i'm now out to lunch.
good point re resampling.

all i can conclude at this juncture is for some reason rb is ok with with 48k but bb no can do.
once i reverted bb to 44.1k all was ok.

i'm curious where the bb or rb app is picking up sound interface capabilities from.
i guess win os audio advanced settings....right ?
one thing that really impressed me about audient was when i got my new audient interface and installed drivers etc etc both rb and bb i had no faffing around with.
both rb and bb picked up the default audient device.
it was a pleasant change from previous years when i might have to faff around with settings when i installed a new interface.


happiness.

om

Last edited by justanoldmuso; 10/29/24 01:43 PM.

my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..)
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Originally Posted by justanoldmuso
i'm curious where the bb or rb app is picking up sound interface capabilities from.
i guess win os audio advanced settings....right ?
Hmm, maybe. There's Windows and BiaB history, Delphi ands its history, and Windows APIs that in my limited(*) and jaundiced experience don't actually work as they should.

(*) I'm a Linux guy ... ALSA does much of the low-level stuff.


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Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.

Watch the XPro Styles PAK 7 Overview & Styles Demos video.

XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2024 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

New! Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Mac!

Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box version 2024 is here with 200 brand new styles to take for a spin!

Along with 50 new styles each for the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, we’ve put together a collection of styles using sounds from the SynthMaster plugin!

In this PAK you'll find: dubby reggae grooves, rootsy Americana, LA jazz pop, driving pop rock, mellow electronica, modern jazz fusion, spacey country ballads, Motown shuffles, energetic EDM, and plenty of synth heavy grooves! Xtra Style PAK 18 features these styles and many, many more!

Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 18 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Expand your Band-in-a-Box 2024® library with Xtra Styles PAK 18! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 18 here.

Watch the Xtra Styles PAK 18 Overview & Styles Demos video.

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 18 requires the 2024 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

New! Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Windows!

Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box version 2024 is here with 200 brand new styles to take for a spin!

Along with 50 new styles each for the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, we’ve put together a collection of styles using sounds from the SynthMaster plugin!

In this PAK you'll find: dubby reggae grooves, rootsy Americana, LA jazz pop, driving pop rock, mellow electronica, modern jazz fusion, spacey country ballads, Motown shuffles, energetic EDM, and plenty of synth heavy grooves! Xtra Style PAK 18 features these styles and many, many more!

Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 18 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Expand your Band-in-a-Box 2024® library with Xtra Styles PAK 18! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 18 here.

Watch the Xtra Styles PAK 18 Overview & Styles Demos video.

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 18 requires the 2024 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

New! XPro Styles PAK 7 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Windows!

We've just released XPro Styles PAK 7 with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 50 RealTracks and RealDrums that are sure to delight!

With XPro Styles PAK 7 you can expect 25 rock & pop, 25 jazz, and 25 country styles, as well as 25 of this year's wildcard genre: Celtic!

Here's a small sampling of what XPro Styles PAK 7 has to offer: energetic rock jigs, New Orleans funk, lilting jazz waltzes, fast Celtic punk, uptempo train beats, gritty grunge, intense jazz rock, groovy EDM, soulful R&B, soft singer-songwriter pop, country blues rock, and many more!

Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 7 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box 2024® with XPro Styles PAK 7! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.

Watch the XPro Styles PAK 7 Overview & Styles Demos video.

XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2024 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

Video - Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin Version 6 for Mac®: New Features for Reaper

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 includes built-in specific support for the Reaper® DAW API, allowing direct transfer of Band-in-a-Box® files to/from Reaper tracks, including tiny lossless files of instructions which play audio instantly from disk.

We demonstrate the new Reaper features in the Band-in-a-Box® VST DAW Plugin 6.0 in our video, Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin Version 6 for Mac®: New Features for Reaper

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Mac® - Update Today!

Already grabbed your copy of Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Mac®? Head to our Support Page to download build 803 and update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 installation with the latest version developed by our team!

Learn more & download now.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Mac® Video - Over 50 New Features and Enhancements!

Read all about the 50+ newest features in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Mac®, or you can watch our video "Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Mac®: Over 50 New Features and Enhancements!" to see it in action!

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