I'm a bedroom guitar player - professional student - spend a lot of time with the instrument noodling, learning little things, not enough time mastering songs for performance. I know what kind of player I am - please no advice on this point. In all fairness, I have learned quite a few songs all the way through - I have the capability, but never had or made the time to practice them regularly to keep them from fading. Work and family had higher priorities. I call myself a "professional student" lol I do enjoy what I do with the instrument, and still want to improve.
That said, along with songs - I do work on exercises to help improve my playing, ear, and musicianship.
One exercise I'm working on currently and have stayed with for quite a few weeks (btw - I'm recently retired):
1.) staying with one major scale (I chose E) and fluently learning the notes from top to bottom in all major (e.g. CAGED) positions. You can also look at this as learning the E scale in all it's modes, starting with the sixth string, index finger on root.
2.) learning to play the triads and their inversions in E on 3 consecutive strings, both up the neck and also within, say 5 frets.
Now I had worked on some of these things in the past, but never within one key with an emphasis on memorizing the shapes and connecting the positions within a single key - instead I learned these things piece-meal with less thoroughness, frequently learning one or 2 of the major fingerings and moving them around the neck changing keys, rather than all across the neck in one key.
This is a really tall order for a beginner, but definitely doable by someone that has played for a few years. Maybe there are beginners out there that can do this, and I just didn't have the discipline and foresight to do this.
I wish I had done this years earlier, I feel like it would have pushed me forward faster.
Please share whether 1.) you see this as a worthwhile exercise and why or why not 2.) whether you have mastered this, and most importantly 3.) Are there any exercises you are currently working on that you wish you had focused on years earlier, that I might consider next ?
On guitar: Slowly, without looking at the neck or body of the guitar: Pluck each string five times then advance to the next string. With each pluck use a different finger of your chord hand to advance one chord. For example; pluck open E, pluck again and use index finger to advance to F, pluck again and use middle finger to advance to Gb, pluck again and use ring finger to advance to G, pluck again and use your pinkie finger to play Ab. Shift hands to A string and repeat. Continue all the way down to the high E string. Reverse and work your way from bottom string to top string while also working your fingers from pinkie to index. DO NOT HURRY and make each note sound clearly. When you mess up, slow down and start from the top again. Once you build speed and can perform this exercise without mistakes, move four frets up the neck and start over.
This exercise teaches your hands the position of the strings and frets by feel so you aren't looking at the guitar all the time to see where your at or where you're wanting to go.
But Its easy to get lost in exercises and "practice"
Check this short out I wish I had learned this sooner
I agree and also like the video. I play bass guitar, a little keyboard and some percussion and as a hobbiest I play either by ear or with the assistance of a chord sheet.
Right now I'm recording a catalog of 60s and 70s Pop and Rock favorites from my youth and having a blast trying to figure out how they sounded so good. Practice for some may be fine and good, and if it works great! But I picked up music late in life and want to record the most I can, knowing that none of it will be perfect, but it sure is fun
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
[quote=mrgeeze] Right now I'm recording a catalog of 60s and 70s Pop and Rock favorites from my youth and having a blast trying to figure out how they sounded so good. Practice for some may be fine and good, and if it works great! But I picked up music late in life and want to record the most I can, knowing that none of it will be perfect, but it sure is fun
Yeah, I can go with that. I didn't start late but I didn't put any effort into it either so I was a poor student running along happily with what limited chords and minimal bass theory I knew from 76 until about 2000. After 2000 I took up cello and had a tutor for my lessons. I'm easily bored PLUS my tutor was young and adventurous so I turned by lesson sessions into recording sessions. I'd learn a bit, prac that for a week and then apply that to a song I was recording. I managed to get the tutor into it ...she sang and played cello on the tracks as well. We even wrote four or five songs along the way. Even now I learn new guitar or bass things to use in a new song I'm writing recording. Recently I wrote a song that pedaled chords and then varied those chords by inversions or one note changes like from A to A2 then Am etc. Learning the inversions, shell chords and how to play pedal bass without getting bored or boring was good too. Learning with a directly applicable purpose is what works for me as opposed to piling in the knowledge and then using it later.
Last edited by rayc; 10/01/2409:33 PM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Learning with a directly applicable purpose is what works for me as opposed to piling in the knowledge and then using it later.
+1 If I pile in the knowledge and don't use it . . . it's forgotten.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Right now I'm recording a catalog of 60s and 70s Pop and Rock favorites from my youth and having a blast trying to figure out how they sounded so good.
I am also amazed at how good an overall song can sound once the music is meshed into the whole recording with effects, mixing, ...
Bass thumper, I would love to hear some of what you've learned through these exercises, of course on a song-by-song basis. In fact, I had a similar idea for learning in this way which I had posted to the Jamzone Forum (I'll list it below) - are there any forums or online groups where people discuss and analyze why the recording of a particular song sounds so good ?
(my Jamzone Post)
I absolutely love Jamzone - as a guitar player I often couldn't clearly hear the guitar parts when trying to figure songs out by ear...nor could I clearly hear bass lines - the only 'shortcoming" - understandable of course, is that the tracks aren't isolations of the original recordings ; ) That said, from a learning perspective (both musically and mixing) - it's interesting to try and compare the versions of the originals to the cover bands, to see what makes one sound better than the other. Have any of you compared some of the original recordings with the Jamzone covers, and could comment whether "excellent / good / ok / passable but nothing to write home about / I won't use this one " ? Vocals are pretty easy to compare - we can all hear and relate to voice, but instruments on the other hand usually take someone that plays well to give accurate comments. This might actually open up some more interesting conversations on a song-by-song discussion of "What makes {Song Title} original recording sound better than the Jamzone version"....no offence to the cover bands of course (none should be taken)
[quote=Joe Videtto2] Bass thumper, I would love to hear some of what you've learned through these exercises, of course on a song-by-song basis. In fact, I had a similar idea for learning in this way which I had posted to the Jamzone Forum (I'll list it below) - are there any forums or online groups where people discuss and analyze why the recording of a particular song sounds so good ?
Hey Joe, As it turns out I just finished a recording today on a popular R&B/Soul song from the 70s. I sent you a PM, reply to that and I'll put you on my distribution list. Someone said the 60s and 70s were "the golden age" of popular music; can't say that I disagree
I'm not aware of any forum where people discuss and analyze why a particular song sounds so good. I made an attempt or two here but there was little if any interest which is a shame. Learning how the masters did it in the past is one great way I try to grow my skills.
--Steve
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Learning the triads was well worth the effort. I reasoned that learning the notes on frets open through 22 would be helpful. Frets 1-12 may be easily broken down into six positions. I chose the Hal Leonard fake book, two volumes -- traditional hymns and country gospel. They are basically lead sheets -- chords, lyrics, and melody in handy CMajor, strong in Public Domain works. Band in a Box makes it easy to produce backing tracks. A digital recorder rounded out the setup. https://rumble.com/v26sz0e-leaning-on-the-everlasting-arms-official-music-video-in-a-rustic-shed-redee.html
Starting with open position #1 the C scale begins on the third fret second string. F on the first fret string #1. Just as with any other band instrument, master one position at a time. Repeat at 12th fret. Follow along with vocal as appropriate. Takes time, but when finished, you have a set. I used NCH Crescendo to add and print out lead sheets in GMaj and Fmaj. I filled in some of the blanks with videos on http://rumble.com/v4jzpdi-learn-the-neck-with-a-lead-sheet-and-band-in-a-box.html (Might have to open a Rumble account to view.) Really no different from steel guitar lessons I took in elementary school. it does take time, no way around that.
Last edited by edshaw; 11/18/2411:07 AM. Reason: typo
Hi Ed - yes, triads and arpeggios have been some of the things I've studied in the past, but incompletely....it's always a challenge to get past studying these triads/arpeggios in isolation by themselves (e.g. only C major, or only F minor 7) to the point of using them musically in a piece. The exercise for this is obvious - playing a tune's chord sheet using only the arpeggios while hearing the song's melody in your head and emphasizing these notes. It's a large "brain jump" (level of effort) to go from a triad in a single position to mixing them up every bar (1 to a bar or 2 per bar at times).
I suppose on that note - who can do this, and how was it making the jump ? On guitar it's been challenging for me to go from thinking of a single arpeggio in a single position (and the accompanying scale) to moving from one to another at the speed required for a song....this has been a plateau for me for many years now.
Joe: Thanks for that. My experience with triads runs fairly parallel to yours. Triads being actually a pair of three note chords, strings 1-2-3 and treble 4-5-6. One mistake I made was getting carried away with the treble triads at the expense of the bass. That led to biting the bullet and having a go at learning the individual notes up to the 20th fret. The BIAB tracks were in place of the teacher. Adding the digital recorder opened up a whole new way to practice and play back. I've been listening to a bit of bluegrass, lately. Come to find out, those mountain players used what they call "phrases." In jazz and rock, I think the term is "chops." If I understand it, a competent Appalachian banjo picker has a library of phrases, including intros, and outros. The finger picking pattern is just as important as the tonal. For one or another reason, sheet music for bluegrass is hard to find...... https://rumble.com/v4anmjf-leaning-on-the-everlasting-arm.html?e9s=src_v1_upp
Last edited by edshaw; 11/18/2406:06 AM. Reason: typo
I think picking out a key and doing what you suggested is useful. This is most useful when the song you may be dealing with stays in key. This sort of study helps a lot in playing live with a band you have not played with. Perhaps you have to play a song you have not played before. This sort of training relates best to music that has a classical structure. It is less useful in some of the more modern forms where rhythmic content is predominant. We have many good training methods nowadays. Information is easy to find on the internet.
It is fun to study music even if you never actually play songs.
After all the study, I find that where one really learns to play is live on stage.
The wind is blowing and my boat is tied up to the dock. I now get to play music again for a while.
Cheers,
Billy
Why do bagpipe players walk while they play? To get away from the noise
What kind of music should you listen to while fishing? Something catchy!
I do this all time when practicing classical or even doing electric or acoustic solos.
I find it best not to look down unless you have to. That way you can immerse yourself in the notes. It is way too distracting to be looking at your hands. You have way more important things to do: like feeling your way into the song. Not staring at your fingers.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
[quote=mrgeeze] Right now I'm recording a catalog of 60s and 70s Pop and Rock favorites from my youth and having a blast trying to figure out how they sounded so good. Practice for some may be fine and good, and if it works great! But I picked up music late in life and want to record the most I can, knowing that none of it will be perfect, but it sure is fun
Yeah, I can go with that. I didn't start late but I didn't put any effort into it either so I was a poor student running along happily with what limited chords and minimal bass theory I knew from 76 until about 2000. After 2000 I took up cello and had a tutor for my lessons. I'm easily bored PLUS my tutor was young and adventurous so I turned by lesson sessions into recording sessions. I'd learn a bit, prac that for a week and then apply that to a song I was recording. I managed to get the tutor into it ...she sang and played cello on the tracks as well. We even wrote four or five songs along the way. Even now I learn new guitar or bass things to use in a new song I'm writing recording. Recently I wrote a song that pedaled chords and then varied those chords by inversions or one note changes like from A to A2 then Am etc. Learning the inversions, shell chords and how to play pedal bass without getting bored or boring was good too. Learning with a directly applicable purpose is what works for me as opposed to piling in the knowledge and then using it later.
Ray is spot on. Get a cheap hardware multi track recorder and play songs and record everything. I didn't get serious about playing until I heard myself playing. It's the most motivational exercise I've ever found. Honestly, it's a lot like dog training. If you go out and the dog is struggling, you go to something easier and build the dog's confidence, eliminate frustration and boredom. Recording can have those same benefits. You go to play a song, can't get into it, struggle, start getting frustrated, use your recorder to bring up a song you know and just enjoy playing that day. Work on variations, new strumming patterns and such. It's more fun to play something you know when you can't yet play what's in front of you.
If you're a Beatles fan, there's no better YouTube Tutorial teacher than Mike Pachelli. He's a very gifted jazz guitarist, an excellent teacher, and a huge note by note, song by song, YouTuber. Here's a link to one of his recent lessons: I'm Happy Just To Dance With You
With 2025 BIAB including the new Stim-Splitter feature, you can import Mike's sing along version he does at the end of each video, extract the drums, bass and vocals and learn to play the guitar parts he teaches while playing along with his stems.
I completely agree with Charlie on this. In fact, Charlie was generous with his knowledge when I was going through the selection process to upgrade a personal recoding setup to enhance which was, at the time, a Tascam Portastudio, used mostly as a backup tool for covering chord strums for popular tunes. I would up with a Zoom 16 linked to the Tascam Portastudio tied together with a laptop for BAIB. Putting it together, I recruited a quartet from the church, four graduating seniors who all got along and had great singing in common, and suppied them with rehearsal material each could use at home with their own laptops. Everyone was amazed at the progress, none more than us.
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