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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 89
Enthusiast
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OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 89 |
If I don't use Band in a Box every day, I end up spending more time searching for how to accomplish a particular task than I do using it to create music. I can open a program like EZKey or EZDrummer which I haven't used in months and drag in an intro, verse, pre-chorus, chorus, bridge, est., change the chords and tempo and other parameters and have a rough layout for a song within minutes without ever having to look anything up.
Sure I can type in a few chords, select a style, and create a song in Band in a Box in a few minutes too, but I usually get bogged down looking for how to do something and end up search the manual or the internet for it. I eventually figure it out and get back on track, and like the results, since the RealTracks and midi styles are pretty awesome.
It seems like the real estate on the screen could be better utilized if it had panels for styles, chords, chord progressions est that could be dragged into a much smaller arrangement window, instead of the program feeling like a spreadsheet heavily relying on keyboard input and memorization of shortcut keys and menu items.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 6,278
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Veteran
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 6,278 |
+1 I agree (and many other users do to) that much more attention should be given to workflow.
Having said that, there have been significant improvements made in the past 2 years, especially in 2024. Specifically: non-modal workflow for certain often used tools, MTP (content) library - which is also non modal, and partial regeneration in Track View that doesn't require any dialogs. Just your selection and ears. Did you have time to explore these, or you have an older version?
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,699
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,699 |
+1
I also use EZ tools and they are very well designed. Same with Kontakt and izotope stuff. And none of these are very similar in their GUIs but because they are fairly well designed you can mostly figure them out without the manual. As for BIAB I have given up on the manual because it is like searching for a needle in a haystack. I come here and get help from this generous community. Also, I have learned to use BIAB for only the most basic things, like generating instrument tracks from RealTracks, and then move as quickly as I can to my DAW for production.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,519
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,519 |
+1. I've been using BIAB for more than 20 years and feel exactly the same.
BIAB 2024, latest build.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 359
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 359 |
+1/ exactly
My latest experience is now when testing out the new stem separation in BIAB 2025.
Stem separation was fairly easy and straight forward as such but then when it comes to use it in BIAB to generate music against it I need to make a Time Map with ACW.
I have managed to do this before at times after spending hours on it and looking through the manual and guidance from the forum.
But this knowledge is nothing that sticks or that I remember now since I don’t use ACW in BIAB unless I really have to (and I don’t since I do most of my work outside BIAB in my DAW and other software).
So I tried to do the Time Mapping in ACW once again but gave up after one hour.
I just don’t want to spend any more time on it (it is done automatically or by one single operation in other software).
I know that I can figure it out again if I go back to my notes and check the guidance notes here on the forum but that will again take hours and I don’t want to be there.
The above is given just as an example.
The new stem separation seems to work fine but falls more or less flat since the next step in the workflow - to set the time map - is very frustrating and time consuming (at least for for me).
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,376
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Veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,376 |
+1/ exactly
My latest experience is now when testing out the new stem separation in BIAB 2025.
Stem separation was fairly easy and straight forward as such but then when it comes to use it in BIAB to generate music against it I need to make a Time Map with ACW.
I have managed to do this before at times after spending hours on it and looking through the manual and guidance from the forum.
But this knowledge is nothing that sticks or that I remember now since I don’t use ACW in BIAB unless I really have to (and I don’t since I do most of my work outside BIAB in my DAW and other software).
So I tried to do the Time Mapping in ACW once again but gave up after one hour.
I just don’t want to spend any more time on it (it is done automatically or by one single operation in other software).
I know that I can figure it out again if I go back to my notes and check the guidance notes here on the forum but that will again take hours and I don’t want to be there.
The above is given just as an example.
The new stem separation seems to work fine but falls more or less flat since the next step in the workflow - to set the time map - is very frustrating and time consuming (at least for for me). If there's an issue with syncing the stems in BIAB I found that it wasn't clear that the ACW in BIAB is a single track function. The ACW only works on the Audio Track. The Master stem is on the Audio Track and is used to sync with BIAB program. This action doesn't affect the split stems. The ACW requires the first bar of audio on the Audio Track to be determined and set by the user. This aligns the Master Track with BIAB Chord Sheet but none of the split stems are automatically aligned. Once the tempo map is created, all tracks follow the tempo map. The issue seems that the stems aren't aligned with the change made to the Master Track setting the first bar. When you first play the split stems in BIAB, they all are aligned. It's creating the ACW tempo map process of attempting to do a multitrack function on a single track tool where the misalignment occurs. The easy answer for Windows users is to split stems in RealBand. It is a total breeze because all of split tracks are aligned when imported and RB has the option to use the existing song when processing the ACW, so the tempo map will align all the tracks, BIAB and splits at once. RealBand can save the file as a Band in a Box file. If the user is only planning to use the isolated vocals, This can be done in BIAB. It's easy to sync any single track automatically with the Master Track when the Master Track is processed by the ACW and then remove the Master Track leaving just the isolated vocal track. This process works with any split stem track. I used vocals as an example.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 359
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 359 |
Thanks,
I may try it out later on.
(not sure I find it intuitively)
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 19,687
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 19,687 |
A lot of people have been strongly recommending improvements to workflow. It seems that many functions could be simplified and / or improved. Some have been, but there are still incredibly complex menus et. al. to try and navigate.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 122
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 122 |
I've come to the conclusion this will never happen so I've given up on it. I love BIAB but it's just so unbearable to use. The only good (and necessary) thing that's happened in the last couple of years is partial regeneration, but this is still implemented badly for drums and still doesn't work on midi - two things that at the very least I was hoping to see for 2025.
The new multipicker is a mess, I rarely use it and wish they would revert to the layout 2023 pickers. Too many things never get addressed. With DAW chord tracks, Toontrack, Ujam etc - I think BIAB is getting closer to having had its day and slowly dropping off the radar.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 6,278
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 6,278 |
Lee,
New picker is not a mess,. In a year I tracked only 3 negative "complaints". One of them is yours. Something to think about. Generally, it's received very well. It's one of very few significant steps toward a better workflow in years. Partial Regeneration is one of them too.
I do agree that in general they did way too little to address workflow, bugs and UI, Which had very strong support among most users.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 6,278
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 6,278 |
Musicity.
Not entirely true. BIAB can now almost instantaneously generate and play. Starts playback - with direct tracks- to- project placement within 2-3 seconds after clicking on a style, same near instant playback goes when picking individual RTs also very fast when you need to regenerate to accept different chord / make other changes. It's not like that in that in the plugin....yet.
Partial Regeneration and full library access is also not available in the plugin. It's making progress but still a long way from home.
I think in 2024 they solved "speed" in BIAB, utilizing multi CPU cores which I thought would never be possible. Function and speed are there. Three things they are failing are is workflow (the subject of this thread), many older bugs do not get addressed and UI that could be much better. This is a general consensus. I am just voicing it.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 19,687
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 19,687 |
I've come to the conclusion this will never happen so I've given up on it. I love BIAB but it's just so unbearable to use. The only good (and necessary) thing that's happened in the last couple of years is partial regeneration, but this is still implemented badly for drums and still doesn't work on midi - two things that at the very least I was hoping to see for 2025.
The new multipicker is a mess, I rarely use it and wish they would revert to the layout 2023 pickers. Too many things never get addressed. With DAW chord tracks, Toontrack, Ujam etc - I think BIAB is getting closer to having had its day and slowly dropping off the radar. I do wish the company had listened more to users' requests to improve workflow and the user interface. There are so many areas that could have benefited to make this a smart and really 'go to' music software product. I guess time will tell.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 122
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 122 |
Like many, I've been using it since the late 90s. I think time has told 
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 122
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 122 |
Lee,
New picker is not a mess,. In a year I tracked only 3 negative "complaints". One of them is yours. Something to think about. Generally, it's received very well. It's one of very few significant steps toward a better workflow in years. Partial Regeneration is one of them too.
I do agree that in general they did way too little to address workflow, bugs and UI, Which had very strong support among most users. Rusty, you and I have never agreed on this and that's fine, but it's all about opinion and workflow. As I've said before I just want simplicity, speed and few clicks as possible. Without firing it up and reminding myself, just a few things off the top of my head: 1: It's non-jailed. So what? Unless you use two monitors you need to close it to get it out of the way as it's set to always on top. 2: Many items that were a simple click on the old picker are now nested behind yet more menus or settings buttons. 3: Type into the search without looking and find it didn't take what you typed as it tries to refresh with each keypress. 4: Trialing a realtrack writes it to the song instead of demoing it, forcing you to either revert or undo every try to get back to where you were if you don't like the result. 5: More non-intuitive and far more fiddly than the old picker. This has never been PG's strong-suit but it's worse than ever. There's more than that but that's all I can remember at the moment. The bottom line is, for me and my workflow (which is all about getting the job done quickly and easily), I can do what I want a lot faster in the normal pickers. Even quicker in the older pickers 2023 etc - and they were bad enough.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 6,278
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 6,278 |
"but it's all about opinion and workflow" But it's also about statistics. Only very few people had something negative to say about it.
1) "It's non-jailed. So what? Unless you use two monitors you need to close it to get it out of the way as it's set to always on top."
"So what" - because you never tried to understand benefits or explore, it will remain "So what".
Before 2024 you could not even do anything unless you exit jailed picker window. So to me, this: "to get it out of the way" doesn't make any sense. If you need a shortcut to close it, ALT+F4 should do it. And yes, I use 2 monitors.
2) I think you identified one or two items that require more than one click and that supposedly ruin the feature for you to the point that you reject it.
3) Mine is superfast. No lag at all. Old computer?
4) Not true. There is an option to have a different behavior for demo audition on double click. Could be better, but option is there.
5) "More non-intuitive and far more fiddly than the old picker."
I disagree entirely as no facts were presented. It is very stable and intuitive compared with bouquet of modal pickers that all looked and felt different like they were bolted on at different times for different reasons.. All content in one place now. More unified look. And yes, non modal. I can have it sitting on another screen and use it as needed.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,004
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,004 |
............................................ With DAW chord tracks, Toontrack, Ujam etc - I think BIAB is getting closer to having had its day and slowly dropping off the radar. That is definitely true on the MIDI side of BiaB. I think they are ahead on the RT side and that is what a lot of customers are using.
Unclear if the pianist is a total beginner or a professional jazz player?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 26,539
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 26,539 |
............................................ With DAW chord tracks, Toontrack, Ujam etc - I think BIAB is getting closer to having had its day and slowly dropping off the radar. That is definitely true on the MIDI side of BiaB. I think they are ahead on the RT side and that is what a lot of customers are using. Although I don’t need to do it, I was impressed how you can now use VST3 plugins with the BIAB chord track. I think it will revive interest in further development of MIDI functions.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,793
Veteran
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,793 |
If bbw4_64.exe is now using the same engine as bbw64.exe you have the same operation but if it's not having to decompress the wma and write into ram, it's just data like midi data, quick, and then you will find you can go to bar 255 in the plugin and it will play right away before Biab has got to generating it into ram.
Partial Regeneration = Generate Selected Region (Plugin)
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,793
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,793 |
I don't just work on improving one thing like the Plugin, but have worked on and still do, improving Biab that's why you have so many things been added to it through suggestion with examples. How many Biab users are working on improving the Plugin and not just focusing on Biab ??
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows® Today!
If you’ve already purchased Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®, great news—a new update is now available! This update introduces a handy new feature: a vertical cursor in the Tracks window that shows the current location across all tracks, and more.
Discover everything included in this free update and download it now at https://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1124
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Boot Camp: The AI Lyrics Generator
With Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows®, we've introduced an exciting new feature: the AI Lyrics Generator! In this video, Tobin guides you step-by-step on how to make the most of this new tool.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Boot Camp: The AI Lyrics Generator video.
Check out the forum post for more information.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using VST3 Plugins
Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows® now includes support for VST3 plugins, bringing even more creative possibilities to your music production. Join Simon as he guides you through the process in this easy-to-follow demonstration!
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using VST3 Plugins
Join the conversation on our forum.
Video: Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows: Using The BB Stem Splitter!
In this video, Tobin provides a crash course on using the new BB Stem Splitter feature included in Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows®. During this process he also uses the Audio Chord Wizard (ACW) and the new Equalize Tempo feature.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using the BB Stem Splitter
Check out the forum post for some optional Tips & Tricks!
Congrats to Misha (Rustyspoon)…downloaded/installed a full Audiophile 2025!
Breaking News!
We’re thrilled to announce that Rustyspoon has made PG history as the very first person to successfully complete the download and install of the full Band-in-a-Box 2025 Windows Audiophile Edition (with FLAC files)—a whopping 610GB of data!
A big shoutout to Rustyspoon for stepping up to be our test "elf!"
Thank you for your support, Rustyspoon!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows Videos
With the launch of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows, we're adding new videos to our YouTube channel. We'll also share them here once they are published so you can easily find all the Band-in-a-Box® 2025 and new Add-on videos in one place!
Whether it's a summary of the new features, demonstrations of the 202 new RealTracks, new XPro Styles PAK 8, or Xtra Styles PAKs 18, information on the 2025 49-PAK, or detailed tutorials for other Band-in-a-Box® 2025 features, we have you covered!
Reference this forum post for One-Stop Shopping of our Band-in-a-Box® 2025 Videos - we will be updating this post as more videos are added!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows is here, packed with major new features and an incredible collection of available new content! This includes 202 RealTracks (in Sets 449-467), plus 20 bonus Unreleased RealTracks in the 2025 49-PAK. There are new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 4, two new sets of “RealDrums Stems,” XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAK 19, and more!
Special Offers
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2025 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some incredible Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Windows 2025 packages, but for even more Add-ons (including 20 Unreleased RealTracks!) upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.
If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us directly—we’re here to help!
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