PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box VST and Pro Tools/AAX DAW Plugin (Windows) Anyone here kind enough to catch me up on the BiaB plugin and the Reaper script(s)?

Hey there friends,

Due to a series of major shifts in my personal life over the last few years, while I kept purchasing each year's updates, I have barely had time to engage with BiaB and explore the new features and evolution of this program since 2021 or so. As such, I am woefully behind on things. Additionally, most of the little free time I had to devote to music as a hobbyist (other than jamming out on my guitar and bass) I used to explore more modern music styles such as EDM, trap, etc., as well as the creative uses of MIDI and effects.

Despite the above, I have lurked the forums from time to time (I miss you guys!) and have seen all the posts by Musocity about the plugin and Reaper. The latest one had some extremely inflammatory words bandied about, and that makes me a bit sad because this was one of my favorite online communities.
I'd like to take a moment here to point out that there are some astonishing things that can be accomplished in Reaper (and other DAWs)—fundamental even, with respect to modern music production. And I'm not even talking about only EDM. Modern music has automation all over the place. It has sends and returns for parallel processing, sidechaining for dozens of purposes...you can send MIDI notes to trigger effects like Stutter Edit 2 on an instrument bus, create groups, folders, create automation lanes to modify any number of filter effect parameters, etc., sample, slice, and dice and rearrange & layer samples in seconds—none of which can be done in BiaB nor RB.

People here have noted over the years (and quite correctly) that modern songs as one would see in the charts are usually just a couple of chords and MIDI, and thus BiaB, which excels at complex progressions and organic instrumentation, is not really relevant for modern music.

I strongly disagree. I disagree for a number of reasons which are too long-winded for me to get into at the moment, but sound design is a huge thing right now, in the sense that segments of real instruments playing are taken, sampled, rearranged, or have applied to them all sorts of bitcrushers, formant filters, reverb and delays with freeze settings, and turned into quite astonishing creations—even with a two-chord song! (Maybe I'll make another dedicated post on the main forum later about all this and provide examples because I am getting sidetracked). The fact is that all these things pretty much require automation and other production techniques that simply cannot be done within BiaB programs.

I think the synergy between BiaB and modern production tools and techniques can spawn music the likes of which the world has not yet seen. (Check out Shpongle for just some of what the synergy between real instruments and modern production can achieve). And yes, I am familiar with Kontakt instruments and UJAM, and all other programs that, (from what I gather but please correct me if I'm wrong). use snippets of real recordings and play them off MIDI chord tracks, and they can't reach BiaB's ankles in the way I envision the synergy I am talking about. Again, I don't really have time to get into it at the moment, but contemporary creative effects use things like ADSRs, LFOs, and envelope followers, which were traditionally associated with MIDI and synths, to modulate parameters as assigned by you.
Note that even if you don't want to record the automation yourself, these plugins will "evolve" their own parameters across the timeline of each bar, or use an envelope follower to modify a resonator such that the more vigorous strums on a guitar kick in or intensify the effect. Or maybe you can use a sidechain from a kick stem to trigger a filter sweep on a B3 organ RT via a send from the former to a compressor FX on the track of the latter. How about if you want to selectively group some of your tracks to apply the above techniques to simultaneously after having another compressor earlier in the chain?
Picture this: take Track A, a moderately strummed guitar RT, and then apply multiband delay with a pitch function synced to your DAW, to target the mids and create 8th note triplets alternating between a 5th above and a 5th below. Then, create Track B, a B3 organ, with subtle distortion or saturation applied (focused on the mids and highs for richness and texture). Route them both to Bus A, apply a glue compressor to blend their dynamics, and then send them to an auxiliary track for sidechain compression triggered by a kick drum. The resulting sound would be a rich, shimmering blend of guitar and organ, dynamically pulsing with the rhythm of the kick, creating a lush and evolving texture.

Now, I've seen the screenshots of the Reaper projects with the GUI and all that which was posted by Musocity, and I can see the myriad of benefits of using the plugin and how it can open up the doorway to a whole new workflow and arrangement possibilities. The issue is that there are many of them, and I have no idea where to start because many of them build on prior ones.

Also, from what I can tell, there are multiple scripts that accomplish different things(?)

So, Musocity, if you would be so kind as to provide me with a bulleted list of what these scripts/apps are, and how to get started with them so I can see what these are all about, I would be most appreciative! Also, assume I know nothing about the BiaB plugin since 2021. Finally, I have Reaper 6 (I am quite comfortable with it, and have not yet decided if I need v7). Would that be a problem?

Thanks in advance!

P.S. As a corollary, the synergies I mentioned above can, of course, be accomplished by dragging your tracks from BiaB into your DAW even without the BiaB plugin. However, even without having explored the plugin yet, I can already think of numerous benefits from having the option to construct a track "additively" as you go, and being able to open an SGU in the plugin should offer tremendous workflow enhancements for these purposes.

deacon.

just a few points.

..for me my work method is i generate tracks of session musos in realband...rb and then its very easy to drop the rb genned tracks into reaps.
so get best of both worlds ie rb and reaps....
..i'm a reaps user from v0.99. in fact i prolly annoyed the reaps devs with submitting too many feature requests early on.
..over the years ive done tons of songs useing bb/realband/reaps combo.
..imho there are plusses and minuses of any music production software.
for example last week i looked at a daw costing over 1000 bucks.
fantastic feature list. however it didnt have some features i like in rb (and bb).
..there are actually lots of things one can do in rb and tricks.
and yes reaps has some superb features but so does rb imho.
in fact there are features in rb ive never seen in any other music app.
yes it has 'quirks'..and maybe ugly on the surface with no fancy shmancy graphics..but underneath are a wealth of great features.
its sort of like a mate i had growing up...he was a bit rough around the edges
but if one delved underneath the guy had a heart of gold.
..one reason ive done various tips on these forums re rb is i feel that some new people will go 'oh rb is free with bb so it cant be any good'.
which is sad imho.
ive done all sorts of crazy things in rb includeing triggering mad sound effects useing midi tricks and lots of other things.
in fact there are a cornucopia of tools.

i respect what your saying...but i am posting this because it concerrns me that any new pg potential customer might go 'oh okay i'll stay away from rb'.
imho and with great respect rb needs just a few more things (which ive suggested to pg) and it could slay the market and the ugly duckling become a beautifull swan. dont get me wrong...it has some quirks but there is lots to love for free too. for example i know of no other daw that generates session musician tracks like i was doing yesterday to which i added vocals to see if a new song concept worked. also per one of my requests to pg i happy to see in rb 2024 that comping has now been added to rb.

in summary as a long time user of both...yes reaps is fabulous but rb has many unique features also which have saved my 'A** many times ....lol.
(see my rb tips in the tips forum and yes with the new free pg sforzando and synthmaster plug ins in rb ...im getting zillions of modern sounds.)

happiness.

om

Hey OM,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

I've not really used RB, I admit. I didn't really click with it when I first started with BiaB in 2018 or thereabouts as I found it slow and frustrating. But I am eager to hear about all the wealth of great features RB has that you haven't found anywhere else, and all those other things that make it special. I'm particularly interested in the "under the hood" types of advancements that may have transpired since I initially gave up on it.

If there's gold to be found there, then I would be legitimately thrilled to enjoy it myself!

Yours, with an open mind

DB09

db.

im kinda busy right now on songs ....lol...and it would take pages
...so...to save me oodles of typing pages n pages....as a start...
go thru the rb vids and upgrade manuals on this pg site and you tube.
you might want to read my tips also int tips forum.
thus you will see if rb 2024 is for you.

fyi i learnt this year Jeff y the rb developer uses rb to do edm.
did you know in rb there is a trick for getting drum solos ??
once i get free time ill do a list why i like rb.
do i want more ?...sure....
btw i also like and have done lots of songs usring only pg fx plugins..and saved lots of moolah useing fx tricks in rb.
see a few songs in my sig. its all tricks eh ??

maybe other users like rharv and rob helms can also comment too re rb so i dont come across as biased...


happiness.

om

Hey,

So I gave RB another try, and it's leagues from what I'm looking for in terms of my own particular purposes. That said, we each have our own usecases, and I'm happy you've meshed with RB :-)

DB09

db...

re leagues..

now you have peaked my interest...what are your particular purposes ?
and what music apps meet your needs ?...cos i would like to check them out and see if i might find them of use.
cos i always have song projects going on.

also im sure the pg developer of rb would be interested with a view to improving rb for all.

db...re rb ...what ive found with it is even tho it has quirks there are many things it can do which arent apparent sometimes.

happiness

om

DB did you watch this video ?

In addition to Rob's video link, PG Music have also created a video that gives an overview of the new features in the BIAB plug-in version 6.

Hi om, sorry for the delay for this the reply (and it's brevity) I had a lot of company over the weekend and barely had a moment to myself.

I like experimenting with sound design, and different ways you can work with audio using FX plugins and being able to manipulate their parameters to evolve and change over time. Sometime ago, I participated in another one of these "who needs Reaper?" threads and jotted down a list of 30 (IIRC) functions that I use in Reaper that you don't have in BiaB or RB. Unfortunately, I can't seem to display the actual text of my responses when I look in my comment history, (only the title of the threads) and I don't really have the time to go coming through everything.

Just 3 examples of how I want to use certain Reaper features with plugins on RTs (and sometimes in conjunction with MIDI). 1) Routing MIDI notes and automation to tracks with to trigger gestures. 2) Sending/sidechaining one RT to another RT or RD loaded with an instance of Transmutator to morph between them over time. 3) Sending a MIDI chord track similarly to a RT or RD drum track with an instance of Vocalsynth 2.

Some of my favorite features to use in Reaper have to do with using the Last Touched Parameter function to assign MIDI controller knobs or mod wheel to any effect or VST(i) parameter I please, and then assigning opening an envelope to modulate those parameters. Then you can record automation in realtime, and even record takes in the same way you can do with audio.
Next, I personally find the piano roll in RB near unusable, not to mention severely limited in functions/features. Also, the program is extremely slow, finicky, and prone to freezing every 5 seconds. Admittedly, my PC may be a bit long in the tooth, but Reaper still works lightening fast and smooth on it.
Again, if it works for you, then that's awesome. I'm sincerely not trying to throw shade in this program!

Thank Rob and Noel for posting the link. I watched it some time ago, and I absolutely LOVE the improvements, and I can't wait to experiment with them.

The reason for my post was that from viewing the short vids and seeing the screenshots and GIFs posted by Musocity over the past year or so, there were elements in the GUI that appeared to offer a number of other features that I did not see in the video, and I figured there could be additional benefits to learning how those worked in conjunction with the plugin from the ground up.

Edit: BTW, is Pipeline still around?

If you want to really learn about Reaper and BiaB plugin I suggest asking on the Reaper forum. I think MusoCity/Pipeline goes by the name MusoBob over there and there are a lot of discussion about using the plugin or BiaB with reaper. Plus there are just a lot more Reaper smarties there as well. I use Reaper myself, but really do not have a big interest in all the scripting things he demos. Most of his threads here are still here to watch and dig into.

Thanks Rob,

Much appreciated!

db..

thanks for the info.
i agree with rob re useing also the reaper forum.

fyi ive used reaps since v0.99 and was not only an early requestor of many featues but also pilloried by variou big studios for saying 'reaps will be big disruptor worldwide'. reason being years back i was so extremely frustrated with music apps i was very close to doing a daw becausei knew soo many hot shot programmers as i worked in tech.

ie frustration often is a reason for new products.

in those early reaps days i also used pg powertracks cos ptw was vrry strong in midi....then later i went to bb and rb complementing reaps.
frankly for me these days i use reaps less and less...basically useing it for fancy audio editing tricks ive developed over the years with it.
due to advances in bb and rb features i mainly work in such....cos they meet my music production needs.

over the years of course and yes reaps is a fab product it has gained a huge user base as i predicted. and also added lots of midi and other great features...so i do get your position....includeing its inter track features. But prolly your needs are different than i re midi.
for example i keep it simple in rb. i just duplicate a midi track in rb...
and set its plugin settings different.

i remain loyal to rb because of the plethora of many ways to generate session musician audio and midi tracks on a ton of rb tracks.
now rb has 256 tracks.
And yes sometimes i drop a rb generated track into reaps so i can use aforementioned editing tricks.
i also like many other tricks i can use eg generating drum solos in rb and lots of other features mentioned in the rb manual.

fyi ive done over 90 songs useing the plusses of each of the rb/bb/reaps combo.

btw...re your pc ...you might find my tips in the tips forum usefull re acquiring or useing an existing pc for music production...give them a read sometime.
fyi i just bought a new mini ryzen pc costing peanuts...and its superb.
rb reports i can get over 200 tracks with it plus it boots into win from cold and rb or bb in just a few secs.

happiness.

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

I hear ya, om.

I'll check out your tips :-)

Sorry, I have been taking a long break from it all ! You didn't get much help asking as most Biab users here are not game to try Reaper with scripts and so get left behind in the world from the amazing quantum leap things that can be done, leaving them in the past. If they had shown some interest and tried the scripts to see what they do they would of been able to help you.
So sorry, it just got all too much for me trying to make Biab better so a took a long break.

I'm just glad PG saw the light I shone and now put direct from disk play in the latest v7.0.0 Plugin that seemed to go over everyone's head.

They are all in this forum and this one > Add-ons and UserTracks for Band-in-a-Box
This is the latest script that will instantly transfer Biab tracks/sections to Reaper with no wav rendering,
but if you look through the Reaper Stash link below you will see many others for different purposes:

Import-frozen-SGU-MGU-realtracks-drums-tracks-GUI.zip
This gives the great song generation power of Biab with professional editing.
Use this "Browse" button to set the path of the frozen SGU/MGU, this can be the SGU you are currently working on in Biab.
"Reaload Tracks" button will load all the currently frozen tracks in the SGU.
"Selected" button will transfer the track instantly into the selected track.
"New" button will transfer the track instantly into a new track.
"Set" button will set Reaper bpm to same as SGU.
"Import Chords" button will import the current SGU chords as regions (make sure to Unfold and save first), it will set the bpm and time signature.
If you update or add new tracks in Biab, just freeze the track and save, then simply hit the "Reload Tracks" button to update the track list.

If you don't have the peak files already it will have to build them but once you have the reapeaks files it will be instant.
You can use Script: Create reapeaks in folder.lua

I think you needed and deserved a long break. You were clearly getting stressed.
Welcome back. I for one have missed you.

Take it easy.

Welcome back, Musocity!

So nice to see you here again

Thanks for your lobbying PG Music re the latest version of the plugin.

TBH, this was the first year over half a decade where I was considering not updating since I have no use for the stem splitter, or AI generated lyrics, and VST3 I get through Element anyway. As for the RTs, as other's have said, they are mostly similar to existing content etc.

But the improvements to the VST plugin alone just may be worth the price of admission to me based on what I read about it so far, as it seems light years ahead of its predecessor.
That said, I'll probably wait to hear what others have to say about it first before pulling the trigger (or better yet watch a video that PGM or, or someone else, makes demonstrating how well everything works so I can see for myself).

All the best!

DB09

P.S. With the new version of the plugin (assuming I do update to 2025), if I start my tracks in Reaper anyway, are there any major advantages to using the script(s)?

I'm in the same boat, I was not going to buy it anymore for the first time since 2009 but then I saw the Plugin has play direct and instant generation and now a small Audiophile drive with FLAC (that I pushed for for so long) that Reaper can play direct also.

I thought the same thing about a video, they need to make more Plugin/Plugin Standalone videos showing the Plugin with in depth actions in all situations, song creation, adding tracks to studio recorded session etc.. (rather than just having 1 video release for the year)
The scripts work good if you work in Biab then transfer tracks to Reaper, Frozen tracks/sections will be transfered instantly, but if you start work in Reaper and use the Plugin then that's a great way to go. The issue now unless fixed soon, is the Plugin or Plugin Standalone won't load a Biab session with Frozen tracks, the Plugin Standalone has a Save/Load state but only loads in the Plugin Standalone but not Biab or Plugin, the track data seems to be saved in another part of the SGU.

It's soooo hard to get Biab users to understand the quantum leap that Reaper gives with Biab+scripts or Plugin+Reaper.
The scripts will allow you to work on different styles at the same time by moving tracks of a different style to new Tabs.
Scripts will allow you to change a track from DI to Normal or Normal to DI keeping the exact same riffs.
Scripts to generate all the reapeaks up so tracks load instantly.
Scripts to write the name of the RealTrack/RealDrums in the track name or as a take marker in the items, this can show where instruments change.
Reaper can use VideoRealTracks.
..........

All this I and still get a hard time here each time I mention that dirty word "REAPER" and scripts
They don't mind at all using ALL the features in Biab that I have suggested over the 16 years and shown with working demos using Reaper, they don't seem to mind at all, but mention Reaper or scripts, bang straight over their head !
Whats that about ignorance and condemnation before investigation ?