PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic Suno AI first experment

https://soundcloud.com/planobilly/midnight-train?si=1ffd3366683d4014b8304168dfead6dc&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

[Verse]
Underneath the silver moon so high
Harmonica whispers a lonesome sigh
Leather boots tapping on the old wood floor
Shadows dancing like they've danced before

[Verse]
Raindrops on my window paint the night
Whiskey in my glass feeling just right
Guitar strings crying out my soul
Lonely heart singing in this smoky hole

[Chorus]
Midnight train's a-calling my name
Roll on out and escape this pain
City lights fading in the rain
I'm on that midnight train
Oh that midnight train

[Verse]
Lady luck gone and left me dry
Cards and dice they made me sigh
Empty pockets and a heavy weight
Searching for a sign nothing but fate

[Verse]
Echoes of a past left far behind
Memories in the fog hard to find
Suitcase packed with dreams long gone
Hoping that train brings a brand new dawn

[Chorus]
Midnight train's a-calling my name
Roll on out and escape this pain
City lights fading in the rain
I'm on that midnight train
Oh that midnight train

I found this pretty amazing. This is the second AI song generator I tried to use. I put it in my DAW and played over the track. It may not be very complex but it certainly was logical.

I look at some info on the use of this software and I think it is possible to integrate parts of the song into BIAB and other software.

I did not change anything in the generated lyrics. While they may not be world-class, they are also not stupid.

I also upgraded my Studio One DAW to the current version 7 which has some useful stuff.

What do you guys think about the state of the AI?

Billy

Billy, completely agree (again) that this is amazing. The backing track is certainly nice enough, and I like the used of pushed chords (something I can never get to sound natural in BiaB). Lyrics are fine, too. The vocals have a modern country sound that I don't care for much, but that's me. Your guitar fills are cool. Just don't know who's music it is. Maybe I shouldn't care. But I'm still not highly interested in this type of AI for doing something that I enjoy doing myself. Not a criticism of you, just where I'm at...

AI is not a something to be ignored. Like it or not. The individuality between who/what composes songs is becoming less distinct.

I'm interested. Just how long did that take, from start to finish?

OK. This is my first experiment with SUNO AI, a song about "creating" music with AI:

https://suno.com/song/357a2dd6-a50c-4329-9fe3-afdb42dfc09e

Seriously, this is is disgustingly good, not only the music, arrangements, mix, etc, but also the lyrics. And at the same time, I find it sad, really sad

Lots of sentiments - in two short sentences.

That is brilliant, Ai is coming along in leaps in bounds, give it another 50 years and with similar progress in hunanoid robots, on a night out with friends, someone will remark to one of our descendants, "Hey your Wife (Husband) is unbelievably cool is he/she human or AI"

They may well answer, "I'm done with humans a long time ago, from here on it is AI"

"What do you guys think about the state of the AI?"

Hmm... Billy would you go on a fishing trip catching some robo fish? Might be fun for a while but I think you'll get bored fast. I mean, I am sure you will appreciate some AI in your boat electronics or even fish finder, I don't think actual cyber fish will bring you lots of joy.

State of AI... I think it's breeding like March rabbits.

My take is this. If you want to see original art, you go to a museum or an art show, you don't go to Walmart to look at colorful posters at $9.99 a poo. Sorry a pop.

I am sure there will be plenty of masters and classics of AI prompt typers after certain amount of time passes. But as of now, I think it's bringing a huge tsunami of mediocrity to already heavily saturated place. Mediocrity which is poached (likely not in a very ethical or legal fashion) from something that we already had before.


P.S. Billy, looks like you had a fun fishing trip!

A guy walks into a bar.
He walks to the jukebox.
He drops in a quarter.
He pushes 2 buttons.
Music begins to play.

He turns around and shouts to the world..."Look what I have created!!!"

The prompts I put in Suno did not do anything remotely like I intended. "Classic Blues from 1950" It took less than three minutes from start to finish, and less than 30 seconds to generate the song.

I had a big laugh about the "Robofish." Imagine a world without humans and only machines, with "robot" people driving around in a "Roboboat" chasing "Robofish!" I am sure I would get tired of catching mechanical fish, but then I get tired of catching the fish I catch and go looking for new varieties of fish. Here is an example. A long tail bass from 800 feet deep.


Any change with a negative economic impact will be met with disdain by those affected. I see the economic issue for the music business to be a serious problem. So has been the change from the days of Vinyl records to the current status of affairs.

If human-generated music is truly superior to what will come with AI there will always be a market. That market will likely be much smaller because because of the difference in cost. I think that will be true for the same reason we have Walmart, MP3, and other cost-based products and services.

How AI-generated music software develops will have a huge impact on how real musicians will use it. I assume most of us here on this forum have no issue using BIAB to generate songs. That is definitely not the same thing but neither is it Abbey Road Studios with live musicians.

I have little interest in randomly generating AI music other than to see what it will produce and the state of the technology. I would like to have an "AI" band in which I could control the individual parts and be able to import those parts into my DAW.

I personally would buy a PG Music product of that nature and be willing to pay somewhere between $2000 to $3000 for such a program if it operated in a classical musical way with all the things that are available in standard notation.

My guess is that no matter what we think or feel about AI-generated music, it is here to stay and will only get better. We are already competing with machines in almost every job there is and there are economic winners and losers as a result of that.

Can machines make people redundant? Well, perhaps they can, but only if we let that happen.
To Rustyspoons point about " a huge tsunami of mediocrity," I think we are already there across the board especially here in the United States. Less quality products and services at a higher cost that we have come to simply put up with. Packaging, don't get me started on that rant...lol

One thing we have to consider is that there are thousands of people who would like to create music with absolutely no skills to do so and who are unwilling to acquire any. For them, AI may be perfect. Skilled musicians will likely not be enamored of the fact that any person who did not put in the work to be a musician can make plausible music. If Eddie was still around I think he would agree with that...lol

Well hell, looks like I am back to my inability to be succinct about anything...lol

Cheers,

Billy

Bet a Humanoid person with an AI brain (we have to call him/her a person because a law will be passed in the future to give the Humanoid equal rights with Humans) will learn to play a guitar in under a day or so, just like the old time tutor books used to promise.

You may think I have watched too many Star Trek episodes, but maybe it will really happen!

Nice job with the fish Billy. That guy is a beauty.

“One thing we have to consider is that there are thousands of people who would like to create music with absolutely no skills to do so and who are unwilling to acquire any”

I think this is one area AI music will come to the fore.
There are millions of people who would love to generate a personalised song for their aunties birthday, just to say “I love you” in a special personalised way. Up till now that has only been possible if you have a couple of weeks and a couple of hundred dollars.

The other is in soundtrack music licensing. I believe that when they have the copyright issue sorted (and they will), pressurised and cost conscious music supervisors will increasingly turn to AI to quickly generate the perfect song for a movie scene for their ever increasing Netflix type movie catalogues.

That idea just floors me.

How is it acceptable for someone who not only lacks the skill to create something, but is also unwilling to acquire those skills will then take credit for something they didn't create?

Certainly, people have the right to own the rights to something they purchased. But that doesn't mean they created it. Calling these people creators devalues true creators.

AI depends on someone else to have gone through the effort of learning their craft, playing instruments and singing, recording and distributing their work. It creates a fiction that because AI is able to duplicate the end result, it is somehow equivalent. But that without using other people's works as building blocks, AI wouldn't be able to produce anything.

AI generates music without having these things, only because it can copy source material that was created using those things.

In contrast, people can continue to create music with their voices and instruments, with no need for computers or AI.

Originally Posted by Planobilly
"How is it acceptable for someone who not only lacks the skill to create something, but is also unwilling to acquire those skills will then take credit for something they didn't create"


I think Joanne gave you the answer to that one David,

.....................................................................................................................................


"There are millions of people who would love to generate a personalised song for their aunties birthday, just to say “I love you” in a special personalised way. Up till now that has only been possible if you have a couple of weeks and a couple of hundred dollars*
.............................................................................

Whether you want to call the process a creation or a generation probably doesn't matter.
In a sense we accept the AI premise already in using BIAB, imagine if a a musician such as a steel guitar player said "how dare you create a song with my instrument in it, just by the push of a button when you haven't spent the hours learning how to play it"

There are plenty of folks who think using BIAB is cheating just as much as AI generation is cheating but here we are on the BIAB forum!

Just to play devil's advocate for a minute...isn't the entirety of human music and art, knowledge and achievement, incrementally built based on the work of previous humans?

William Faulkner: "Immature artists copy, great artists steal"
Igor Stravinsky: "A good composer does not imitate; he steals"
Steve Jobs: "Good artists copy, great artists steal"

Maybe AI just helps more people steal faster?

Variant A

Your aunt has a birthday. You go to a bakery and ask the baker to make a unique, personalize cake. You give clear instructions on what you want, accepting the choices offered. Everybody at the party love it.Guests ask:
-Where did you get it? Tastes and looks great!
You reply:
-Bakery makes it, but I gave them an amazing set of instructions.

---------

Variant B
Your aunt has a birthday. You bake a cake. Using a recipe from Internet and a few store bought decoration & topers. Aunt asks:
-Where did you get this cake?
-I baked it for you, dear Auntie.
-I love you!



JJJ interesting concept:
"Maybe AI just helps more people steal faster?"

I will "borrow" a line from a known band to try to answer this with yet another question:
"what you gonna do with all that junk inside that trunk?"

And another thought:

Painting of Mona Lisa at Louvre - Master piece
Your 8y.o. child's interpretation of Mona Lisa - Sacred
Hallmark birthday card with Mona Lisa on the cover- next morning trash can candidate.

David
I personally don’t think there is much difference between using AI and using BIAB to generate drums and using synth v to generate vocals.

Almost every abled bodied and able mined person can learn to play drums and can learn to sing. It is just a matter of whether that person sees the worth in developing these skills or not.

Is the opportunity cost of learning these skills worth, say, sending less time playing a sport or writing or painting or whatever other things the person want to do with their time?

"Is the opportunity cost of learning these skills worth, say, sending less time playing a sport or writing or painting or whatever other things the person want to do with their time?"

What??

If you don't enjoy music making process, than yes it likely is not worth it. I assume the app you are advertising is aimed at those millions who have better things to do with their time than to write / compose music themselves?

"Hallmark birthday card with Mona Lisa on the cover- next morning trash can candidate."
Stop it!. You're killing me with practicality

I see a difference between using BB and things like SynthV where you have to actually do things manually to create the music you want vs using AI which generates the lyrics, melody, music, and production in 20 seconds from a one sentence prompt.

In the online groups on social media that cater to AI generated music, people who can't sing, can't play any instrument, and have no clue about recording a basic track are considering themselves to be musicians now with the AI generator as their "instrument".

Yes... I think AI is a great tool and I have been using it in a number of songs. I rarely ever take it straight from the AI generation, choosing to edit the lyrics and often playing the parts myself on keys and guitars because, well, lets be honest, AI still has a way to go on some things. I also replace the vocals with one of the SV voices for the same reasons. Just like any advance that changes the paradigm, a lot of people resist the inevitable changes that are being instituted by the newer technology. How this all shakes out is yet to be settled. I think we're in the Model-T, Wright Brothers stage with AI right now. Look at the changes over the last 2 years. 2 years ago, I would never have used one of the vocaloid voices because they were horrible. AI music wasn't a thing yet. In 24 months, look where it has come. Wait another year or two. Suno, one of the many AI generators is dropping HUGE improvements to their platform every couple of months. We're just getting started. Even PG Music is integrating AI tools into the new versions that they are releasing.

I just watched a video this morning that took an interesting look at AI and the implications of what is happening now with AI and copyright and content rules.

Variant C
Your aunt has a birthday. You pick up a cake from the Walmart bakery that has no customization at all. Aunt asks:
-Where did you get this cake?
-I baked it for you, dear Auntie.
-I love you!

But I'll never travel to Louvre so to me the Hallmark card has *more* value than that original painting. And why is that painting special? Because we say it is! Does it feed the poor? Or clothe the refugee? Or cure my mom's cancer? No, it just hangs in a museum so privileged people can look at it and, apparently, enhance their boring lives with it.

(You make excellent points...I'm just expressing my contrarian nature!)