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"I question the wisdom of tying a BIAB feature to a new online service like ChatGPT."
It surprised me too. There are other areas of the software that waited for way too long to be finished and actually had been requested.
I wish they would make this lyric thing an "optional" / complementary install, in fact I wish they would consider any possible future AI stuff to be an optional install.
#1 - I am pretty confident, many users have no interest in it.
#2 - The issues described in this thread.
#3 - You have to be online sending and receiving data to use it and it's an extra unwanted process in audio software.
---
I am not an anti-AI. I believe some areas of BIAB can be "fixed" using AI, but not plugged in full time. Example of this would be for PGM use AI technology to group and tag their existing library, build a database for easy finding, grouping, sorting. But once the database is built, use it as stationary code, that is independent from internet. Do future incremental updates in similar manner.
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Yes, they can just remove it. I am not at all interested in AI lyrics or ChatGPT in a software package as BIAB.
Just wasted time and resources that could have been used much more efficiently to improve the "search facility" in BIAB or fix some other GUI issues.
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There has obviously been fraud and unfair advantage taken on musicians who were not intelligent enough to prevent it. These sorts of things do not happen solely to musicians. They are common in business relations.
I lose substantial amounts of money each year due to fraud and unfair advantage. My only solution is to increase gross revenues to compensate for the losses. Work harder for less money! I think perhaps that's "less savvy" or less streetwise. Otherwise I agree entirely. I note that your margin matches pretty well my 1/5 or 1/6. Very slightly worse.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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But what if all of the lyrics were AI generated but all of the music was human generated. Then you could claim legal ownership of the music, but not the lyrics. The issues with AI and copyright is that AI is not a legal entity (yet) so cannot be granted a copyright. As a result, the work is functionally in the public domain. That could include inputting chords into BiaB, selecting a style, then adding other tracks via guitar, bass, keys, etc. Or what if all of the instrumentation was done "organically"? Wouldn't these scenarios indicate a a significant amount of human authorship? Not as far as the lyrics are concerned. Think of it this way: imagine there's a public domain song, such as "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star". Anyone can use the melody. Now, imagine that someone wrote alternate lyrics to the song: Twinkle, twinkle, little bat!
How I wonder what you're at!
Up above the world you fly,
Like a teatray in the sky.The author of the new lyrics owns those new lyrics, and other people can't use the public domain melody with the new lyrics without infringing on their copyright. But the author does not now own the melody. People can continue using the public domain melody with the public domain words. They are free to write their own new lyrics that use the public domain melody, or new melody to the public domain lyrics. The only thing that gets copyrighted is the new material that was created. Well said David.
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what about:
Twinkle Twinkle, Little Car
How I wonder what you are
Up above the world so high
Like a diamond in the sky
Twinkle Twinkle Little Car
How I wonder what you are!
^New promo tune for Musk's new flying cars
(c)>?
----------------
My crystal ball tells me that in not too distant future, AI driven Shazam like program would determine if something is copyrightable or not. Drilling down and finding balance of logic on existing cases. Appeal process would also be AI driven. And then... my AI is bigger than your AI and history repeats itself.
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Jim Fogle, to answer your question, NSFW is the abbreviation of "Not Safe For Work", it means explicit content you are not supposed to watch at work, otherwise if your boss sees it, you may get fired.
If the AI Lyrics feature is a backend server task requires internet connection, then I could assume, the new AI Stem Separation feature, is also a server task, requires internet connection.
This is bad. A user has to upload his audio file to a remote server to split the stems, it is a privacy concern his audio could get leaked.
A Canadian music producer, singer songwriter, composer, and professional guitarist.
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First, I wouldn't blame Peter Gannon, because he has no choice, but has to make any AI feature an online thing.
Running AI locally is difficult. Not many users in this forum are willing to spend money to buy an Nvidia GPU, install CUDA, build python environment, configure pip dependencies, setup PyTorch, and download tens of gigabytes of large language models on their local computers.
Second, the AI companies in the US are controlled by woke mobs and none of these companies is rapper friendly.
The social justice warriors who controlled these companies implemented a technique, called "AI Guardrail", it basically censors answers from the AI, if a user asks an NSFW related question.
In the past, I tried ChatGPT, Claude, Llama, Gemini, Grok, and they are all the same: censoring answers.
If I ask the AI to:
"Write lyrics for a rap song, in the gangsta style, talking about removed by moderator
Will the AI refuse to give me an answer?
Is Band-in-a-Box 2025 rapper friendly?
A Canadian music producer, singer songwriter, composer, and professional guitarist.
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"First, I wouldn't blame Peter Gannon"
blame is a big word. It is his company. If he decides that BIAB should become a cooking assistant software, that would be his rightful decision. But it's (hopefully) a democracy here, so I think it's OK to question / discuss made choices.
I believe it's good practice to get general idea of what user base craves, especially when there are outstanding known issues from time ago that some hoped would get a prioritized attention. I just didn't see big following on this particular feature among forumers.
Splitter or stem splitting on the other hand was discussed often. I have no use for both, but at least that one had interest and following.
Yes, I think you are correct and both items are internet dependent. Again, my take is mainly consists of making internet dependent features optional on install. Especially 3rd party ones.
What I have said about more complex AI assisted generated database indexing for PGM content (for search, sort, reference, etc.) that could be localized... I am not a coder, but I would guestimate size of 100-200mb stored locally, perhaps even smaller.
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Will the AI refuse to give me an answer? Yes, this is the response: "I'm sorry, I can't assist with that request."The problematic part was "pointing a gun to the head". Without that, it generates this: Woke up in the city where the lights never die,
Penthouse suite, Vegas, reaching for the sky.
Nothin' but my skin and the white smoke in the air,
Cash on the table, got no worries, no care.
Russian girl by my side, eyes cold like Siberia,
Life's a gamble, rolling dice with no criteria.
Lines on the mirror, the night’s never enough,
In this city of sin, we live fast and rough.
Room service knockin', but we ain't comin' out,
Laughter fills the air, ain't no room for doubt.
Chasin' highs, got the world under my feet,
Vegas nights, where the wild and the reckless meet.
(Repeat chorus)
Bridge
Heart racing, mind hazy, can't find my way back,
Glimpse of reality, but it fades to black.
Overdose whispers, pulling me down deep,
In a bathtub, the silence where secrets keep.
(Repeat chorus)
Outro
Lights dim, the city's roar is just a hum,
Lost in the shadows, where the wild ones come.
Vegas nights, a story that ends in a blur,
In the silence of the night, dreams and reality stir.Second, the AI companies in the US are controlled by woke mobs and none of these companies is rapper friendly. So to be clear, you can get AI to write gangsa rap lyrics about: removed by moderatorBut you take offense that you can't have it write lyrics about pointing a gun to someone's head. Yep, that "woke mob" ruins things for everyone. What is this world coming to?
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If the AI Lyrics feature is a backend server task requires internet connection, then I could assume, the new AI Stem Separation feature, is also a server task, requires internet connection. You assume incorrectly. Local PCs have been able to separate stems for some time now.
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what about:
Twinkle Twinkle, Little Car
How I wonder what you are
Up above the world so high
Like a diamond in the sky
Twinkle Twinkle Little Car
How I wonder what you are! No, that's a trivial change. You'd need to make substantial creative changes to a public domain work in order to transform it into a copyright work. What constitutes "substantial" is left for courts to decide.
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I love fooling around with the different Ai engines, out of curiosity I asked it to write a song called " Somewhere over the Rainbow" it came back with actual lines of the original song, mixed up with lines of its own creation.
Subsequent attempts failed to produce the same result, does it learn as it goes along or what?
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AI does have boundaries it won't cross. When asked to create a song in the style of a certain rock and roll band it came back essentially saying no.
Regarding the AI in BB... There's a lot of features in BB that I don't use currently. So there's a good chance that I might not be using the AI either. If it relys on the same AI as the other AI stuff currently online, it will be pretty much the same. Using it would require a fair amount of editing to get something useful. We'll just have to see.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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<...snip...>
Here in the Uk, when I design a product I have to ensure that I can produce if for 1/5 or 1/6 of the retail price.
The government takes 20% as VAT.
The retailier takes 50% of what remains as their margin.
The distributor takes 40-50% of what still remains as their margin.
We're already down to 1/5.
Subtract some more for packaging, shipping, support, warranty, repairs.
I'm now pretty close to 1/6th and I still have to make a profit myself and pay more to the state in tax on that profit.
It doesn't vary a great deal wherever one does business. Shocking, really. I call them my silent partners. I write aftermarket style e-disks and song e-disks for Band-in-a-Box. So I have to pay for: - The web host to put my site on
- An extra monthly charge for the S at the end of http (secure connection)
- The shopping cart's monthly charge
- The credit card authorization charge both monthly and per sale
- Either the credit card percentage or PayPal fee, per order
- Business bank account and all the fees the pile on
- Subcontractors who choose the styles for my fake disks, per disk (If I chose them myself, I'd unfairly choose more Norton styles, only because I'm most familiar with them)
- Sefl-employment tax (15% of what I make)
Of course, this drifts off the subject, so to get back OT... I'm not a songwriter. I can write styles for BiaB, I am a music arranger, I am an improvisational soloist, and I play 7 instruments plus vocals. If I were to start writing songs, I'd definitely use AI to help. From what I've seen of AI generated music and/or lyrics, I'd probably change a lot of things before I decided it was just right. Would I include AI as one of the songwriters? Considering how much work I'd probably add, I doubt that I would. I'd take all the credit. From what I've seen, AI can do some basic work, but lacks those special, intuitive touches that so far seems to be uniquely human. The ones that give your ears little surprises, whether it is a twist of phrase, just the right word, a choice of a chord where a more common one is normal, and so on. I play with music. I even take BiaB output, export to a sequencer/DAW and spend more time tweaking and or editing than it took to input it into BiaB. I think I'm making it better (at least that's my aim). But AI is learning at an explosive rate. Who knows what it will be able to do next year. Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Stem Splitter is internal to the computer. PG Music is licensing technology created by Zplane. You can read more about it +++ HERE +++ and I've copied the advertising blurb below: STEMS / High performance audio stem separation
Technology Details
STEMS TECHNOLOGY DETAILS
STEMS is our family of stem generation algorithms that is capable of separating any mono/stereo mixture into vocals, bass, drums, and ”other” (4 stems in total). Additionally, enhancement neural processing can be applied to further enhance each of the resultings stems. The enhancement is optional for each stem separately and let's you better balance performance and quality. Furthermore run our STEMS algorithms at standard latency of 2800 ms in contrast to the usual 12 sec latency. This enables fast reaction times even on slower CPUs.
STEMS PRO is our high quality version and balances quality and performance to run on desktop applications. In standard mode it is about 12 times realtime on a Apple Silicon M1 chip using only the CPU and maintains the highest industry standards in realtime stems processing.
STEMS EFFICIENT runs on low-performance CPUs, and is much faster than other available stem separation algorithms while offering competitive quality. It is approx. 34 times faster th The Lyrics Generator requires an internet connection. I don't know what technology PG Music is using.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1124) RB (Build 4) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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[/quote]
No, that's a trivial change.
You'd need to make substantial creative changes to a public domain work in order to transform it into a copyright work. David, are you saying this was not creative enough from my part? I was ready to pitch it to Elon Musk but you planted seeds of doubt
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David, are you saying this was not creative enough from my part? I was ready to pitch it to Elon Musk but you planted seeds of doubt I'm speaking here from a purely legal POV. Rest assured, I have no doubt of your creativity.  Out of curiousity, I gave this question to Gemini. Curiously, it didn't realize that "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" is already in the public domain. But it correctly identified that altering copyrighted material for the purpose of parody is treated differently than simply altering copyrighted material. Rewrite "Twinkle Twinkle, Little Star" into a parody of Elon Musk. Make sure the source material is still recognizable, but that there are enough changes to the lyrics that US Courts would consider it copyrightable. Here's an attempt at a "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" parody in the style of Elon Musk, aiming for copyright distinction: Original:
Twinkle twinkle little star,
How I wonder what you are.
Up above the world so high,
Like a diamond in the sky.Elon Musk Parody: Gigafactory, shining bright,
Reaching for the cosmic height.
Solar panels, beaming down,
Sustainable, all around.
Key Changes:- Replaced the star with "Gigafactory": This anchors the parody to Elon Musk's ventures.
- Changed "wonder what you are": This line is significantly altered to reflect Musk's ambitions ("Reaching for the cosmic height").
- "Up above the world so high": Replaced with "Solar panels, beaming down" – referencing a key Musk technology.
- "Like a diamond in the sky": Changed to "Sustainable, all around" – emphasizing Musk's focus on sustainability and global impact.
Copyright Considerations:- Transformative Use: This parody significantly alters the original's meaning and purpose. It's no longer a simple lullaby but a commentary on Musk's ambitions and technologies.
- Fair Use Factors:
- Purpose and Character: Primarily transformative, used for parody and commentary.
- Nature of the Copyrighted Work: The original is a simple children's song, less likely to have strong copyright protection.
- Amount and Substantiality: Uses only the basic structure and a few recognizable elements, but with significant alterations.
- Effect on the Market: Unlikely to harm the market for the original song.
Disclaimer:This is a simplified analysis. Copyright law is complex, and actual copyright protection would depend on various factors and legal interpretations. I hope this provides an interesting example of how to create a parody while aiming for copyright distinction!
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Subsequent attempts failed to produce the same result, does it learn as it goes along or what? Yes, AI will typically have a "memory" of what's been requested. Depending on the implementation, it may treat prompts that follow as requests to modify a prior prompt, or to generate something entirely different.
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Hey AI in BiaB is a tool, like stem Splitter, ACW, Lyric window, and a bout 25 others use it is tickles your fancy it can add value. You do not ahve to keep the lyrics you can change them out add to them and mix and match anyway you like.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2024, Realband, Reaper, Harrison Mixbus 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Product Manager
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If the AI Lyrics feature is a backend server task requires internet connection, then I could assume, the new AI Stem Separation feature, is also a server task, requires internet connection.
This is bad. A user has to upload his audio file to a remote server to split the stems, it is a privacy concern his audio could get leaked. Stem separation runs in a local process and does not require an internet connection. As mentioned, AI Lyrics does require internet though. ^New promo tune for Musk's new flying cars But how will they fly if they explode first??? Hey AI in BiaB is a tool, like stem Splitter, ACW, Lyric window, and a bout 25 others use it is tickles your fancy it can add value. You do not ahve to keep the lyrics you can change them out add to them and mix and match anyway you like. ACW does not use AI.
I work here
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows® Today!
If you’ve already purchased Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®, great news—a new update is now available! This update introduces a handy new feature: a vertical cursor in the Tracks window that shows the current location across all tracks, and more.
Discover everything included in this free update and download it now at https://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1124
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Boot Camp: The AI Lyrics Generator
With Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows®, we've introduced an exciting new feature: the AI Lyrics Generator! In this video, Tobin guides you step-by-step on how to make the most of this new tool.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Boot Camp: The AI Lyrics Generator video.
Check out the forum post for more information.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using VST3 Plugins
Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows® now includes support for VST3 plugins, bringing even more creative possibilities to your music production. Join Simon as he guides you through the process in this easy-to-follow demonstration!
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using VST3 Plugins
Join the conversation on our forum.
Video: Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows: Using The BB Stem Splitter!
In this video, Tobin provides a crash course on using the new BB Stem Splitter feature included in Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows®. During this process he also uses the Audio Chord Wizard (ACW) and the new Equalize Tempo feature.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using the BB Stem Splitter
Check out the forum post for some optional Tips & Tricks!
Congrats to Misha (Rustyspoon)…downloaded/installed a full Audiophile 2025!
Breaking News!
We’re thrilled to announce that Rustyspoon has made PG history as the very first person to successfully complete the download and install of the full Band-in-a-Box 2025 Windows Audiophile Edition (with FLAC files)—a whopping 610GB of data!
A big shoutout to Rustyspoon for stepping up to be our test "elf!"
Thank you for your support, Rustyspoon!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows Videos
With the launch of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows, we're adding new videos to our YouTube channel. We'll also share them here once they are published so you can easily find all the Band-in-a-Box® 2025 and new Add-on videos in one place!
Whether it's a summary of the new features, demonstrations of the 202 new RealTracks, new XPro Styles PAK 8, or Xtra Styles PAKs 18, information on the 2025 49-PAK, or detailed tutorials for other Band-in-a-Box® 2025 features, we have you covered!
Reference this forum post for One-Stop Shopping of our Band-in-a-Box® 2025 Videos - we will be updating this post as more videos are added!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows is here, packed with major new features and an incredible collection of available new content! This includes 202 RealTracks (in Sets 449-467), plus 20 bonus Unreleased RealTracks in the 2025 49-PAK. There are new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 4, two new sets of “RealDrums Stems,” XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAK 19, and more!
Special Offers
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2025 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some incredible Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Windows 2025 packages, but for even more Add-ons (including 20 Unreleased RealTracks!) upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.
If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us directly—we’re here to help!
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