Yes, but but if so it seems that they have not yet realized that the GUI needs to be updated. I new modern team of GUI designers would already have that insight with them.
I do not think New GUI designers is needed. They have just been building on what it started with. They need to come to the realization that the GUI needs to be updated! Robert
FWIW I think the entire code needs to be updated, modernized and rewritten. YMMV
I can think of three ways users use BiaB 1) Everything is done in BiaB 2) Do what they can in BiaB and then import into their DAW to finish it. 3) Do what they can in BiaB and then import into Realband to finish it.
Now if Realband is integrated into BiaB, then there is only 2 ways to use BiaB
Me on the other hand want to do what I can in BiaB (Imagine a Band that practices on getting the song correct and when they are ready, then they record it), and then Live stream into my daw (Recording and then doing all the engineering) to finish it.
That’s my way, but with that said, I want to change BiaB for users to use it any way they want!
After reading all of this post I have realized that BIAB is definitely a very strange program from a modern software perspective. I take it from your all's comments that it has been built up and layered from an ancient base and has never had a complete modern makeover as far as function, labeling, GUI etc. How unusual in the modern software universe. I am going to postulate that a complete makeover to bring everything up to modern standards would be very expensive and involve a huge investment of time. Has PGM given any feedback on their orientation on this topic? Not criticizing - just asking.
Originally Posted by musocity
"The recent screenshot you posted would influence the quality of the track generation if the generation occurs in RealBand" Biab is becoming a DAW because RealBand was too slow at generating (main issue why it was not popular), I was on RealBand for years trying to improve it as I did not use Biab because you had to type in everything you wanted it to do, you could not see the tracks. Either users want the old Biab auto accompaniment on stage or they want to use it to create up tracks and work like a DAW. I think the horse has bolted and it can only go one way from here. My main focus in the BB Plugin/ Standalone as I can see all the limitations of Biab RealBand going into the future, I don't think things can last the way it's going with 6mths Win 6mths Mac, it needs to be true crossplatform eventually, RealBand is Win only, the future of PG is having a Linux and iPad version as well as Win Mac all released at the same time, but for now it will keep going how it's going for a while longer. See while we are doing this here with BB25, the Mac users are still waiting but there is zero concern because we got it already. Do we look at what's best for I, Me or what's best for us all and work for that ?
Typing in numbers BB2009, users can go back to these versions and they will still work in a less DAW way.
I can think of three ways users use BiaB 1) Everything is done in BiaB 2) Do what they can in BiaB and then import into their DAW to finish it. 3) Do what they can in BiaB and then import into Realband to finish it.
Me: 4) Create what tracks they want in their DAW and then import the tracks into Band-in-a-Box to finish it.
"They need to come to the realization that the GUI needs to be updated!"
They sort of did about 8 years ago = minimalistic GUI, which cut through a lot of cholesterol, but made up only about 20% of whole UI experience. Since then nothing much changed until MTP and several non-modal tools came in 2024. MTP in my view was a success, but still it bothers me that it wasn't put in a nicer "shell", utilizing same type of context boxes, buttons, etc from ~15 years ago.
I had high hopes for 2025, as far as continuation of UI / workflow improvements. Unfortunately that didn't happen.
Mario, Even mighty Cakewalk with heavy cash injection from wealthy Kuok Khoon Hong family kept most of old code (some from decades ago). Instead of a re-write, they focused on UI and workflow! My biggest concern on the BIAB "code" was that regenerations were super slow on larger projects pre 2024. Meaning, you change a single chord and wait and wait and wait till it's done. 2024 changed that in the most dramatic way. Now whole song takes only a few short seconds to regenerate. Besides about 30-40 known issues (workflow and bugs), I have no problem with speed or most functions. UI and workflow is the last frontier.
I don't think flirting with AI in similar manner it was done in 2025 will solve anything. Also, I believe PGM doesn't have the luxury of time it had 10 years ago to experiment with non essential things (video tracks anyone?) or leave features in half baked state. Tech world had gone through transformations with lots of competition in the wild & customers want a longer ride for their $.
------------- There is only one question JAOM raised that stands out to me. It went something like: "Are you willing to pay more?" I think 10%-15% increase is absolutely OK, if that what it will take to propel BIAB to a new level.
I don't think flirting with AI in similar manner it was done in 2025 will solve anything. ------------- There is only one question JAOM raised that stands out to me. It went something like: "Are you willing to pay more?" I think 10%-15% increase is absolutely OK, if that what it will take to propel BIAB to a new level.
To me "AI" should not be in BiaB, Just do like Henry Clark did "Band in a Box + ChatGPT = impressed the BOSS !"
I'm sure many would be willing to pay more, I have thou a different way PGM could get the extra $$ Some may pay a little more and others a little less. This would be done in a fair way for all.
"There is only one question JAOM raised that stands out to me. It went something like: "Are you willing to pay more?" I think 10%-15% increase is absolutely OK, if that what it will take to propel BIAB to a new level."
I remember years back suggesting crowd funding and PG said no we don't need that. What would they do hire more Delphi programmers to fit the work in the 6 months time slot ? From what I can see there seems to be a lot of Delphi programmers working on Biab and "1" C++ working on the JUCE Plugin v7 that is ready now with a great GUI for Win & Mac while PG have just started moving the Biab Win 2025 code to Biab Mac for the next 6 months. Can you all see what really needs doing ? heaven forbid if they spend all the time working on 1 code, this is total craziness, no other company on planet earth has crossplatform applications released at the same time with same features do they ? Forget about AI !
I prefer BIAB to Plugin for many reasons, not worth of mentioning in this topic. Here is what AI says:
"While Delphi is not necessarily associated with the latest cutting-edge UI design trends, using its FireMonkey framework, custom styles, and third-party components can help you create a modern, attractive GUI. The key to modernizing your Delphi GUI is using clean layouts, responsive design, and smooth animations to ensure your application feels contemporary and intuitive."
"Delphi's FireMonkey (FMX) framework allows for the creation of cross-platform, modern UIs that work across Windows, macOS, iOS, and Android. FireMonkey supports the use of custom styles, vector graphics, and rich animations, enabling a modern look."
"Use modern design patterns: Consider using flat UI design, minimalistic color schemes, and large typography. These are key characteristics of modern UIs. Responsive layouts: FireMonkey allows for responsive design, meaning you can create UIs that adjust to different screen sizes and resolutions."
You don't need AI to tell you that band in a box GUI Modernization all this stuffs goes right back and is just repeated in big long threads about the GUI over the years.
This is just an simulated way pricing could go How about this Pricing structure (*=2025 current pricing shown) New Customers BiaB Pro $129* Program Addons (AO) VST3 Support $10 The Chord Builder $10 Guitar Tuner $7 Ear Training $7 Practice/Wood Shedding $10 Jukebox $5 Lyrics $10 Auto generate Song title $7 File Utilities $15 Total for all AO $81 Total cost for BiaB Pro cost of each addon, if the user wanted all addons his total cost would be $230 Now if he only wanted these addons VST $10 Chord Builder $10 File Utilities $15 Total for Addons $35 and BiaB Pro for $129 his total coust would be $164
**************************************************** For users that are Upgrading, they need to call to get the best pricing, based on how long & what they currently own. For example: Joe user has owned the program for over 20yrs and has the Audiophile package download and pays $619 +20 for all addins Tom has owned the program for over 7yrs and has the UltraPak package and pays $469* +20 for all addins Now Larry has owned the program for over 3yrs and has the MegaPak package and pays $269* +and only these addons VST $10 Chord Builder $10 File Utilities $15 Total for Addons $35, but gets a discount costing him $15
This is just a thought, Users buy what they want and not get the things they do not want.
So as for Pricing, only PGM can tell us what that would be.
This is just an simulated way pricing could go How about this Pricing structure (*=2025 current pricing shown) New Customers BiaB Pro $129* Program Addons (AO) VST3 Support $10 The Chord Builder $10 Guitar Tuner $7 Ear Training $7 Practice/Wood Shedding $10 Jukebox $5 Lyrics $10 Auto generate Song title $7 File Utilities $15 Total for all AO $81 Total cost for BiaB Pro cost of each addon, if the user wanted all addons his total cost would be $230 Now if he only wanted these addons VST $10 Chord Builder $10 File Utilities $15 Total for Addons $35 and BiaB Pro for $129 his total coust would be $164
**************************************************** For users that are Upgrading, they need to call to get the best pricing, based on how & what they currently own. For example: Joe user has owned the program for over 20yrs and has the Audiophile package download and pays $619 +20 for all addins Tom has owned the program for over 7yrs and has the UltraPak package and pays $469* +20 for all addins Now Larry has owned the program for over 3yrs and has the MegaPak package and pays $269* +and only these addons VST $10 Chord Builder $10 File Utilities $15 Total for Addons $35, but gets a discount costing him $15
This is just a thought, Users buy what they want and not get the things they do not want.
So as for Pricing, only PGM can tell us what I would be.
Robert
I hope you are joking! A pricing model like this would be pure chaos and almost certainly put PGM out of business very quickly! Just imagine how much extra workload this would create to break all of these bits and pieces out to sell separately! Every possible config would have to be tested. And the confusion it would create among users would be insane!
Nope. Anything even remotely like this and I would be done with any further upgrades.
I think you will run into issues with tooooooo many versions. It's a big headache as it is with all the "packs" and "add ons". Topic comes up nearly every 2 weeks. I think price of a program, and especially updates are very fair. Lets not go that route, as it's a company's business to set pricing. Question came up, and I answered that to me, 10%-15% increase in software (not content) price is VERY reasonable, if it will take it to new level.
That means, the software will be more expensive with variation from ~$5-$20, depending on sale season and upgrade vs new purchase. I think local Burger King pays $18/ hour...
JUCE is the most widely used framework for audio application and plug-in development. It is an open source C++ codebase that can be used to create standalone software on Windows, macOS, Linux, iOS and Android, as well as VST, VST3, AU, AUv3, AAX and LV2 plug-ins.
JUCE allows developers to focus on the most valuable parts of their software by taking care of the differences between operating systems (both desktop and mobile) and plug-in formats. With JUCE’s library of digital audio processing (DSP) building blocks you can quickly prototype and release native applications and plug-ins with a consistent user experience across all supported platforms. Using JUCE also future-proofs your products against operating system and plug-in host updates.
A Quantum Leap is needed else the same thing is gonna drag on for years. I type things and as I type I think this is all familiar, so I look way way back in the forum posts of years n years n years... and sure enough it's all been said before.
"I care less..." "See while we are doing this here with BB25, the Mac users are still waiting but there is zero concern because we got it already. Do we look at what's best for I, Me or what's best for us all and work for that ?"
So you are saying that if it's $20 more for you to get the new BiaB and would not purchase it, someone else said that they are will to pay 10-15% more.
Now take Tom example, he has owned the program for over 7yrs and has the UltraPak package and pays $469* +15% (Which is $70,35) totals $539.53, my example was for a total of $489. At 10% its $515.90 Believe or not, they do that with Accounting software, accounts payable, accounts receivable and you can pay extra for addins to the software, like billings, fixed assets, payroll, and inventory. I've even seen something like this for Medical software as well.
Now with BiaB, some people are stating that they would pay for an increase (10-15%) if the GUI and other issues are fixed. I'm only stating, that Any current user should get some kind of discount, and it is possible to separate some of the things in BiaB into addin's (One programming app called them Black Boxes, which are fully capable apps that can can be easily add to an application)
So this can be done, depending on how BiaB is written. It's as simple as adding their "MegaPAK. UltraPAK, UltraPAK+ or the Audiophile Edition to BiaB, same could be done with some of the components with BiaB currently.
At one time we had Movable/Floating toolbars and they took that away from us. When you purchase BiaB, you get several files in your download, and they are installed by their installer. There are companies that do this, and they have not gone out of business because of doing this.
As far as how they will do this and what the cost will be, it's not for me or anyone of us to say.
I think you will run into issues with tooooooo many versions. It's a big headache as it is with all the "packs" and "add ons". Topic comes up nearly every 2 weeks. I think price of a program, and especially updates are very fair. Lets not go that route, as it's a company's business to set pricing. Question came up, and I answered that to me, 10%-15% increase in software (not content) price is VERY reasonable, if it will take it to new level.
That means, the software will be more expensive with variation from ~$5-$20, depending on sale season and upgrade vs new purchase. I think local Burger King pays $18/ hour...
No Issues, They have a record/ history of what we own. Calling to order an upgrade, and letting them know what you want, they could quickly come with the cost for you to upgrade, and put the corresponding files in your download folder to download, which is with an installer. Now it installs what you purchased. I've first hand seen this work with Both Accounting and Medical software.
But again, PGM is the one to decide how they will do things. NOT ME!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows® Today!
If you’ve already purchased Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®, great news—a new update is now available! This update introduces a handy new feature: a vertical cursor in the Tracks window that shows the current location across all tracks, and more.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Boot Camp: The AI Lyrics Generator
With Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows®, we've introduced an exciting new feature: the AI Lyrics Generator! In this video, Tobin guides you step-by-step on how to make the most of this new tool.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Boot Camp: The AI Lyrics Generator video.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using VST3 Plugins
Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows® now includes support for VST3 plugins, bringing even more creative possibilities to your music production. Join Simon as he guides you through the process in this easy-to-follow demonstration!
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using VST3 Plugins
Video: Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows: Using The BB Stem Splitter!
In this video, Tobin provides a crash course on using the new BB Stem Splitter feature included in Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows®. During this process he also uses the Audio Chord Wizard (ACW) and the new Equalize Tempo feature.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using the BB Stem Splitter
Check out the forum post for some optional Tips & Tricks!
Congrats to Misha (Rustyspoon)…downloaded/installed a full Audiophile 2025!
Breaking News!
We’re thrilled to announce that Rustyspoon has made PG history as the very first person to successfully complete the download and install of the full Band-in-a-Box 2025 Windows Audiophile Edition (with FLAC files)—a whopping 610GB of data!
A big shoutout to Rustyspoon for stepping up to be our test "elf!"
With the launch of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows, we're adding new videos to our YouTube channel. We'll also share them here once they are published so you can easily find all the Band-in-a-Box® 2025 and new Add-on videos in one place!
Whether it's a summary of the new features, demonstrations of the 202 new RealTracks, new XPro Styles PAK 8, or Xtra Styles PAKs 18, information on the 2025 49-PAK, or detailed tutorials for other Band-in-a-Box® 2025 features, we have you covered!
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows is here, packed with major new features and an incredible collection of available new content! This includes 202 RealTracks (in Sets 449-467), plus 20 bonus Unreleased RealTracks in the 2025 49-PAK. There are new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 4, two new sets of “RealDrums Stems,” XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAK 19, and more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 with savings of up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special—available until December 31, 2024! Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
2025 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some incredible Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Windows 2025 packages, but for even more Add-ons (including 20 Unreleased RealTracks!) upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.
If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us directly—we’re here to help!
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