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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Dec 2023
Posts: 61
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2023
Posts: 61 |
Hi all,
It's always inspiring to chat with and hear the musical thoughts of this great community !!! I used to have these motivating chats decades ago at the "local music shop", or in "homeroom" with my high school friends that also loved music, played instruments, and liked similar bands. This forum is the closest I've come to that over the years for maintain my enthusiasm by sharing with like-minded musicians.
On that note - and since I'm trying to reach the next level in my musicianship, I thought I would put this question out there, share a little of what I'm doing, and quite possibly learn an be influenced or inspired by things you might be focusing on to bring your musicianship up.
First off - I know I need to learn more songs, internalize them, get them to musical memory, and play them more frequently. Somehow - I get lost in the paralysis of analysis of music rather than the joy of playing it - it must be my personality, I'm more inclined to study and analyze than play. But I know I must force myself to immerse myself in playing songs.
After that - I always noodle in front of the TV (yeah - I watch a lot of TV), but try to learn something musical with my instrument as I watch. This is my current "noodle" exercise:
I'm a guitar player that finds it really challenging to hear and recognize chord progressions - and to more quickly "hear" a next chord that fits. I have a friend that can do this. I'm trying to put the time in to get closer to his skill level in this area. Just knowing and hearing the difference in I-IV, I-V, IV-I, and V-I changes is difficult for me - especially when going to roots an octave apart for example open C -> G (root on 6th) vs C -> G (3rd pstn, root on 4th). So my current "focused" somewhat "academic" musical exercise has been playing through the cycle of 5ths with all major chords e.g. C G D A ...etc in the open position and memorizing the sound. When I finish this, I plan to do the same thing with 4ths, e.g. C F Bb Eb...then to do the same thing with all minors...Now, I know that this is less musical than doing the cycle of 4ths diatonically - which works well with the exception of the half-diminished chord (Am Dm G, C, F, B half dim Em ) - I guess that's why 2-5-1 often change keys to avoid that 'section' of the diatonic pattern.
Eager to hear what you're doing, or constructive comments or tweaks I might make in my current practicing.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 837
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 837 |
Learn a piece slowly as I can stand.
Bar By Bar
At a slow tempo.
With a metronome.
Sometimes it’s painful going so slow.
And then, you’re done. You have the piece well in your control.
Now the noodling and reharmonizationg, rubatosizing (not really a word ).
And it seems a better way to do it.
For now anyway.
biab2024(Mac) Latest Build
Mac OS Sequoia 15.0.1
Apple M2 pro 32GB Ram
Logic Pro 11
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Dec 2023
Posts: 61
Enthusiast
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OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2023
Posts: 61 |
...
And then, you’re done. You have the piece well in your control. Just curious - after you do this, however long it takes - a few hours, a few days, a few weeks depending on the song and your experience...how much rehearsal, replaying, and reinforcement before it's in your long term memory and can be played even if you don't look at it for months (or even years) - do you reach that point for much of your repertoire ? This is where I fall really short, probably because I don't perform and the joy of studying and discovering what's going on is much more fun for me that the work required to commit the music to long term memory.
Last edited by Joe Videtto2; 12/20/24 08:10 AM.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,581
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,581 |
I work from the Public Domain Hymnal to simplify copyright issues. Do a simple mix in BIAB and export the song, usually with around four repeats, Post that on the portable digital recorder, usually two or three tracks. Plug the guitar into one of the record inputs. Produce and print a lead sheet for sight reading. Visualize the neck as five or six positions, each position has four frets to correspond to the four fingers of the left hand. Practice the positions one at a time, or hop around from one position to the another in no particular order. Keep it simple by sticking to a few common progressions.
Link: www.soundcloud.com/ed_shaw (Feel Free to Use) Biab for WIN 2020 -- Win 10 64bit -- Reaper/Audacity Zoom R-16 -- Tascam DP-03-SD -- SoundTap -- Crescendo --
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 933
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 933 |
Joe:
"First off - I know I need to learn more songs, internalize them, get them to musical memory, and play them more frequently. Somehow - I get lost in the paralysis of analysis of music rather than the joy of playing it - it must be my personality, I'm more inclined to study and analyze than play. But I know I must force myself to immerse myself in playing songs."
There is nothing wrong at all with the study and analyzation of music. I do it all the time. If I am learning a new song, before I go to sleep, I read the music, song, tab or whatever over and over and that has helped me tremendously over the years. You might wind up with an 'ear worm' all night long but oh well...
When I am learning the playing aspect of the song, like others have said which is so true, start slow and learn measure by measure and then add some measures to that you have already played. In my case, it might take a couple of weeks to get it into muscle memory. I also use either a backing track or, in my case, Band in a Box so I have something to follow along with.
"After that - I always noodle in front of the TV (yeah - I watch a lot of TV), but try to learn something musical with my instrument as I watch. This is my current "noodle" exercise:"
I have been playing and learning new songs for over 40 years and my strong advice to you is to drop the TV. When you are trying to learn new songs, new theory, new chord progressions and so on, your brain is divided between watching the 'idiot tube' and your time for music learning. You are multitasking and dividing your time and your learning process, between the two.
I never, ever do that!
Drop the TV and let your brain concentrate 100% on the item at hand.
jcland
BIAB2024
Windows 10 Pro
WA6NCB
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,683
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,683 |
I am undergoing a significant reevaluation of my current state with music and my future goals.
I am trying to learn to play some songs that I have always liked but have found too difficult or perhaps even impossible to learn. I have been exploring my underdeveloped ability to sight-read and removing some of my self-imposed limits. This has given me greater confidence that I can learn much more difficult material, but it also brings up the most perplexing question I have always had to deal with.
Now what? Great. I can now play and sing this song to an acceptable level, so what am I going to do with that? I'm sort of all dressed up and have nowhere to go.
Go play in another band? Go play at a church? Go play a gig alone? Go play in the street? Go play in the street in another country? Make another recording that a handful of people will listen to. Make another recording costing a large amount of money and promote it so that a few hundred people will listen to it? Play strictly for myself with no intent for anyone else to hear anything I am playing?
I have no need to earn more money, so the prospect of earning money does not motivate me. I most certainly don't want to become well-known or famous.
I have done all the above things in the past. Some were more rewarding than others.
I can say for sure I am tired of playing/creating music by myself. Finding other people to play with when I lived in Los Angeles, California, was easy. Here in South Florida, finding musicians with the skills and cultural background that match what would be fun for me has been very difficult.
Cheers,
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,572
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Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,572 |
Hey Billy,
Which is harder, finding musicians with the skills or the cultural background? I think the answer to that question may help you find the answer to your bigger question, what's next.
One resource you may be overlooking is local high schools with music programs. Get to know the music teacher. The teacher and some of their students may be interested in learning and performing your kind of music.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1124) RB (Build 4) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,474
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Joined: Jun 2020
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To "raise my musical bar" I have embarked on a rather ambitious project. To learn, play and record on my bass, 100 of my favorite classic rock songs from the 60s and 70s. And 100 more recent songs in the smooth jazz/ambient/South American/Latin/Spanish jazz genres . . . stuff I love.
I don't care how long this takes, the journey is my reward. And as far as quality is concerned, never let perfection get in the way of good enough is a piece of wisdom I learned many years ago from the grey-beards when I started out in my career.
I utilize chord sheets and Guitar Pro files from the internet when I can find them. I also have a powerful DAW and SongMaster Pro to help extract stems and produce chord progressions. But the more I progress, the more I rely on my ear.
I have a group of friends and family that I send my recordings to and I play them live for house guests when we hold dinner parties. To be honest, if I had no one to share my output with I'd still plod along on creating my catalog of songs. It's about the satisfaction of learning, playing and recording. I've also collaborated with others, live and over the internet.
I "picked up" music late in life (started playing bass 9 years ago) am essentially self-taught and am having a blast. Along the way I try to learn as much theory as I can but always with the goal of supporting my playing and my ability to learn new material.
There are many paths available for moving your musicianship forward, my approach is certainly not the only way and it won't work for everyone.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,318
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,318 |
Hi all,
On that note - and since I'm trying to reach the next level in my musicianship, I thought I would put this question out there, share a little of what I'm doing, and quite possibly learn an be influenced or inspired by things you might be focusing on to bring your musicianship up. Howdy Joe.... I've been MIA here lately (currently in a creative deficit  ) so I didn't read other responses. Bluntly speaking to your direct question: I would emphatically suggest to learn songs that are not easyThat approach has given me my best 'musicianship' improvement over the decades. I have several on my youtube channel that were very difficult (in my genre of choice) but one has to persevere to reach one's goal. IE: Kid Charlemagne, Listen To The Music, Rio Di Janeiro Blue, You're Gonna Get You're Fingers Burned, Long Train Runnin' Another Park Another Sunday....among others. So....tackle some truly challenging songs rather than easy ones and don't be intimidated by extended chords.....learn them. There's few things in life worth doing that come easy....your perseverance will reward you with a new found confidence. That's my somewhat brief take. Good luck on your quest. I do hope that helps. (if remotely interested: https://www.youtube.com/user/chulaivet/videos)
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 01/13/25 10:46 AM.
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