Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Off-Topic
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,472
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,472
Quote
Will the AI refuse to give me an answer?

When it doesn't, it is trying to comply with rules, laws, treaties and potential liability issues that have yet to be properly defined. let alone worked out. The major players are the US, UK, EU and Japan. There are many minor players and I consult to a few.

The Librarian of Congress set many things in motion when she made a ruling that allowed the SAG and WGA strikes to be settled last year.

The question of "Who owns what?" is the helicopter issue that hovers over everything.


BIAB 2024 Audiophile, 24Core/60CoreGPU Core M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro
Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion/Overture
Off-Topic
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 282
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 282
Post removed by moderator


A Canadian music producer, singer songwriter, composer, and professional guitarist.
Off-Topic
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 6,426
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 6,426
I am so happy I am not a gansta rapper.
This stuff above makes me wanna take a napper.

Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,735
J
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
J
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,735
Originally Posted by MusicVillain
If a rapper releases a song using David's lyrics, his song is guaranteed to fail big time, no one would ever care about it, just like how a Disney movie flop in the box office.
I am no expert on rap but if a rapper releases a song that AI wrote for them seems like that is an instant fail regardless, right? Kinda like an upper-class white kid rapping about how tough his shift was at Old Navy!

Off-Topic
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 6,426
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 6,426
JJJ,
I had to try it. AI generated lyrics about a white middle-class kid rapping about his tough shift at Old Navy:

Yo, I clock in at nine, pull up in my khakis,
Old Navy uniform, but I’m feelin’ kinda wack, see.
I’m stackin’ jeans, foldin’ shirts, it’s a game,
Tryna keep my cool, but man, it’s all the same.

I’m on the floor, breakin’ my back for the pay,
The line’s wrapped ‘round the corner, customers delay.
"Can you help me find this? Can you check that size?"
I’m just tryna make it through, I’m seein’ all these eyes.

Grabbing carts in the lot, feelin’ like a champ,
Runnin' back inside ‘cause my hands are full of stamps.
My feet hurt, back sore, I need a break,
But they got me runnin' ‘round like it’s an all-day race.

Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,735
J
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
J
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,735
Awesome Misha! Maybe MusicVillain can rap this!

Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 19,818
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 19,818
Originally Posted by MusicVillain
I am very disappointed.
The lyrics generated by David Cuny, is not a gangster style rap song, but a self-righteous virtue signaling woke garbage.
...
Seeing we're concerned about correctness, copyright, etc, if I understand correctly, David did not generate those lyrics. AI generated the lyrics, David just posted them.


BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Off-Topic
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 282
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 282
Post removed by moderator


A Canadian music producer, singer songwriter, composer, and professional guitarist.
Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,735
J
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
J
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,735
Originally Posted by MusicVillain
Post removed by moderator
Honestly, your inappropriately explicit posts make me wish the PGM forum had filtering like the AI you are complaining about!

Off-Topic
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,987
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,987
I have to agree with you JJJ, When this guy asks,

"Does AI stand for "Artificial Intelligence", or "Autism Imbecile"?

Personally as a parent of a teenager with Autism and Learning needs I find that highly offensive.


Musiclover

My music https://www.youtube.com/user/donegalprideofall

Windows 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Band in a Box 2024, Cubase 13, Cakewalk and far too many VST plugins that I probably don't need or will ever use smile
Off-Topic
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2,215
Product Manager
Offline
Product Manager
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2,215
Originally Posted by JohnJohnJohn
Honestly, your inappropriately explicit posts make me wish the PGM forum had filtering like the AI you are complaining about!
We do, it's just that we have to manually add words to the filter. We've added a few more.

Forgive the pun, but we want to keep these forums fairly PG.


I work here
Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,947
PG Music Staff
Offline
PG Music Staff
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,947
Originally Posted by Simon - PG Music
Forgive the pun, but we want to keep these forums fairly PG.
Groooooaaaan. That was a good one.

Last edited by Ember - PG Music; 01/13/25 02:15 PM.

Cheers,
Ember
Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,285
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,285
Originally Posted by "Music Villain"
I'd like to clarify to the forum moderator, the main purpose of my posts, was to discuss the ideaology of "anti-boring" with David Cuny. The censored example was just a way of testing AI, which I will manually delete for NSFW reasons.

Let's have another look at your first post:

Originally Posted by "Music Villain"
As a user who regularly composes rap songs with NSFW lyrics, such as gangsters, crimes, guns, sex, drugs, politicians, etc, will PG Music eventually ban me from using this AI feature on their server?
No. There is no "morals clause" to the use of the AI feature.

Originally Posted by "Music Villain"
Should I buy Band-in-a-Box 2025?
If the features in the 2025 edition are worth your money, yes.

Originally Posted by "Music Villain"
Is this new AI Lyrics feature rapper friendly?
BiaB uses ChatGPT for the AI service. You've already noted that ChatGPT is not "rapper friendly".

The topics that you write about - gangsters, crimes, guns, sex, drugs and politicians - are not censored by ChatGPT. What is censored is "NSFW lyrics" - for example, lyrics that are sexually explicit or ultra-violent.

You say that you're discussing the ideology of "anti-boring", but based on what you've posted as examples, the goal is to create lyrics that shock and offend.

I'd hardly call the group of people on this forum a "woke mob", and you've seen the reaction to your posting NSFW songs, with lyrics and topics intended to shock and offend sensibilities.

Why would you expect any different reaction from companies trying to make a profit on a service? What benefit is there to them for having their products create materials that would be considered inappropriate and offensive?


-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?
Off-Topic
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 282
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 282
David,

You probably didn't have a chance to read my last post before it was gone. I was referring "woke mobs", not to anyone on this forum, but to those million dollars net worth AI company executives in California, for their bullying behaviors on censoring free speech and violation of first amendment.

In my last post, I was simply arguing: If Freddie Mercury can point a bullet launching device to someone's head, pull the activating mechanism, in his song "Bohemian Rhapsody", and achieve great success, why can't I point the same device, to the head of a Russian Whoquer? Why is modern AI so bigot towards rapping culture?

The lyrics I shared in my last post, generated by a 7 billion parameter Facebook Llama model, should not be labeled as "inappropriate and offensive", but really should be considered as "work ethic". In case you don't know, a successful gangsta rapper must keep a strong "work ethic", to ensure every song he releases includes crimes, eroticism, addictive chemicals, launching devices, and violence.

The most offensive and unethical thing, for a gangsta rapper to do, is writing boring lyrics, and ruining the experience of your audiences.

Ask yourself, imagine all of a sudden, James Bond has a self-righteous spiritual awakening, and decides to stop killing people or sleeping with Bond girls, will you still be interested in watching his movies anymore?


A Canadian music producer, singer songwriter, composer, and professional guitarist.
Off-Topic
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 282
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 282
Originally Posted by Simon - PG Music
We do, it's just that we have to manually add words to the filter. We've added a few more.

Forgive the pun, but we want to keep these forums fairly PG.

Speaking of pun, I agree with Simon here. PG forum should never become Twitter, or Reddit, it should remain as a PG forum, not an X forum, or an R forum.


A Canadian music producer, singer songwriter, composer, and professional guitarist.
Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,285
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,285
Originally Posted by MusicVillain
You probably didn't have a chance to read my last post before it was gone. I was referring "woke mobs", not to anyone on this forum, but to those million dollars net worth AI company executives in California, for their bullying behaviors on censoring free speech and violation of first amendment.
I read all your posts before they were removed.

First of all, what the companies are doing is not "censoring free speech and violation of first amendment". The First Amendment to the US Constitution states:

Originally Posted by "First Amendment"
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

This only applies to laws passed by the US Congress, not corporations. Corporations are free to create whatever restrictions they want.

Even given this, the US Courts have found that not all free speech is protected by the First Amendment. Exceptions are made for:

  • True threats (speech that could be perceived as an immediate threat to someone's safety)
  • Obscenity and child pornography
  • Speech that incites imminent lawless action


Finally, there aren't "mobs" of CEOs. The term "woke mobs" refers to groups of people to put pressure on others - in this case, the US public demanding that CEOs implement censorship in AI.

I was drawing an analogy to people demanding AIs not generate obscenity with those same forces here on this forum complaining about you posting what they considered to be obscenities.

If your measure of "wokeness" is that they demand censorship of obscenities, by implication the people on this forum are equally "woke" in demanding censorship when you write the same offensive materials here.

I argue that neither are "woke". The creation of material that is offensive will, by defniition, generate that response.

Quote
In my last post, I was simply arguing: If Freddie Mercury can point a bullet launching device to someone's head, pull the activating mechanism, in his song "Bohemian Rhapsody", and achieve great success, why can't I point the same device, to the head of a Russian Whoquer?

First things first - there is nothing preventing you from writing the lyrics yourself, just like Freddy did. After all, he didn't use AI, did he?

The lyric in "Bohemian Rhapsody" can reasonably be considered offensive. After all, it's there for shock value. But the context is entirely different - it's an over-the-top opera, a parody.

Many critics at the time very much disliked "Bohemian Rhapsody". They considered it too long, and too over the top.

You complain that AI won't give the sort of detail to lyrics that gangsta rap demands. In your example, you explain that it's important that AI be able to generate salacious content.

  • It's not just some random person who was shot, it's a prostitute.
  • But "prostitute" is too tame a term - the AI must be able to generate a slur.
  • And singer has to brag he's had s** with her, too!
  • And not just any sort act, but one that degrades, objectifies and shows masculine dominance.


By doing this, you are ensuring that you'll offend as much of the general public as possible. Certainly the reaction on the forum - which we agree is not a "woke mob" - demonstrates this.

The song is designed to offend the general audience, and thus never reach the sort of "great success" that "Bohemian Rhapsody" achieved.

Quote
Why is modern AI so bigot towards rapping culture?
Because rapping culture is based on creating lyrics that are intended to offend. If you create material that is intentionally offensive, it's reasonable to expect people to be offended.

Modern AI isn't a "bigot" to rapping culture. AI censors offensive output.

Rapping culture is built on writing offensive lyrics.

The conflict comes from rapping culture, not the other way around.

Quote
The lyrics I shared in my last post, generated by a 7 billion parameter Facebook Llama model, should not be labeled as "inappropriate and offensive", but really should be considered as "work ethic". In case you don't know, a successful gangsta rapper must keep a strong "work ethic", to ensure every song he releases includes crimes, eroticism, addictive chemicals, launching devices, and violence.
You've already stated that gangsta rap lyrics are NSFW - another term for "inappropriate".

While some people claim that gangsta rap glorifies a work ethic, the work it glorifies must also be taken into account. A work ethic promoting violence, drug use, and glorifying the gang lifestyle is one that promotes activities that are understood to be offensive.

Quote
The most offensive and unethical thing, for a gangsta rapper to do, is writing boring lyrics, and ruining the experience of your audiences.

Gangsta rap is a sub-genre of hip-hop. It's a niche market that by your own definition aims to create lyrics which are offensive to the average person on the street.

Just because there's a market for something - for example, snuff films - doesn't change the fact that the material is offensive.

Quote
Ask yourself, imagine all of a sudden, James Bond has a self-righteous spiritual awakening, and decides to stop killing people or sleeping with Bond girls, will you still be interested in watching his movies anymore?
That's an interesting comparison, but I think it strengthens my argument instead of weakening it.

Certainly, Bond films are have gratuitous sex and violence. But they are carefully crafted to stay within the range of publicly accepted norms. After all, the films go before review boards, and for the sake of reaching a large audience, they need to achieve a PG-13 rating. They intentionally perform self-censorship, although many have rightly argued they push the envelope and should be rated higher than PG-13.

In contrast, you create lyrics that insist on going outside these norms, and you chafe at any sort of censorship.

While you have every right to do that, you don't have any sort of right to expect that corporations or the general public will take any action to assist you. After all, your lyrics as designed to offend.


-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?
Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,735
J
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
J
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,735
Originally Posted by dcuny
Originally Posted by MusicVillain
You probably didn't have a chance to read my last post before it was gone. I was referring "woke mobs", not to anyone on this forum, but to those million dollars net worth AI company executives in California, for their bullying behaviors on censoring free speech and violation of first amendment.
I read all your posts before they were removed.

First of all, what the companies are doing is not "censoring free speech and violation of first amendment". The First Amendment to the US Constitution states:

Originally Posted by "First Amendment"
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

This only applies to laws passed by the US Congress, not corporations. Corporations are free to create whatever restrictions they want.

Even given this, the US Courts have found that not all free speech is protected by the First Amendment. Exceptions are made for:

  • True threats (speech that could be perceived as an immediate threat to someone's safety)
  • Obscenity and child pornography
  • Speech that incites imminent lawless action


Finally, there aren't "mobs" of CEOs. The term "woke mobs" refers to groups of people to put pressure on others - in this case, the US public demanding that CEOs implement censorship in AI.

I was drawing an analogy to people demanding AIs not generate obscenity with those same forces here on this forum complaining about you posting what they considered to be obscenities.

If your measure of "wokeness" is that they demand censorship of obscenities, by implication the people on this forum are equally "woke" in demanding censorship when you write the same offensive materials here.

I argue that neither are "woke". The creation of material that is offensive will, by defniition, generate that response.

Quote
In my last post, I was simply arguing: If Freddie Mercury can point a bullet launching device to someone's head, pull the activating mechanism, in his song "Bohemian Rhapsody", and achieve great success, why can't I point the same device, to the head of a Russian Whoquer?

First things first - there is nothing preventing you from writing the lyrics yourself, just like Freddy did. After all, he didn't use AI, did he?

The lyric in "Bohemian Rhapsody" can reasonably be considered offensive. After all, it's there for shock value. But the context is entirely different - it's an over-the-top opera, a parody.

Many critics at the time very much disliked "Bohemian Rhapsody". They considered it too long, and too over the top.

You complain that AI won't give the sort of detail to lyrics that gangsta rap demands. In your example, you explain that it's important that AI be able to generate salacious content.

  • It's not just some random person who was shot, it's a prostitute.
  • But "prostitute" is too tame a term - the AI must be able to generate a slur.
  • And singer has to brag he's had s** with her, too!
  • And not just any sort act, but one that degrades, objectifies and shows masculine dominance.


By doing this, you are ensuring that you'll offend as much of the general public as possible. Certainly the reaction on the forum - which we agree is not a "woke mob" - demonstrates this.

The song is designed to offend the general audience, and thus never reach the sort of "great success" that "Bohemian Rhapsody" achieved.

Quote
Why is modern AI so bigot towards rapping culture?
Because rapping culture is based on creating lyrics that are intended to offend. If you create material that is intentionally offensive, it's reasonable to expect people to be offended.

Modern AI isn't a "bigot" to rapping culture. AI censors offensive output.

Rapping culture is built on writing offensive lyrics.

The conflict comes from rapping culture, not the other way around.

Quote
The lyrics I shared in my last post, generated by a 7 billion parameter Facebook Llama model, should not be labeled as "inappropriate and offensive", but really should be considered as "work ethic". In case you don't know, a successful gangsta rapper must keep a strong "work ethic", to ensure every song he releases includes crimes, eroticism, addictive chemicals, launching devices, and violence.
You've already stated that gangsta rap lyrics are NSFW - another term for "inappropriate".

While some people claim that gangsta rap glorifies a work ethic, the work it glorifies must also be taken into account. A work ethic promoting violence, drug use, and glorifying the gang lifestyle is one that promotes activities that are understood to be offensive.

Quote
The most offensive and unethical thing, for a gangsta rapper to do, is writing boring lyrics, and ruining the experience of your audiences.

Gangsta rap is a sub-genre of hip-hop. It's a niche market that by your own definition aims to create lyrics which are offensive to the average person on the street.

Just because there's a market for something - for example, snuff films - doesn't change the fact that the material is offensive.

Quote
Ask yourself, imagine all of a sudden, James Bond has a self-righteous spiritual awakening, and decides to stop killing people or sleeping with Bond girls, will you still be interested in watching his movies anymore?
That's an interesting comparison, but I think it strengthens my argument instead of weakening it.

Certainly, Bond films are have gratuitous sex and violence. But they are carefully crafted to stay within the range of publicly accepted norms. After all, the films go before review boards, and for the sake of reaching a large audience, they need to achieve a PG-13 rating. They intentionally perform self-censorship, although many have rightly argued they push the envelope and should be rated higher than PG-13.

In contrast, you create lyrics that insist on going outside these norms, and you chafe at any sort of censorship.

While you have every right to do that, you don't have any sort of right to expect that corporations or the general public will take any action to assist you. After all, your lyrics as designed to offend.
Well said David!

I might add that when you post obviously offensive stuff and then later post it again to make your case, you're a troll too!

Off-Topic
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,929
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,929
This one got deep.....


You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com
Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Off-Topic
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,024
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,024
Sometimes lyric intent comes into play also.

Bohemian Rhapsody is lamenting killing a man, and facing the consequences.. not glorifying it as a way of life.
Much different.

Just my nickel's worth, trying to address the topic

Last edited by rharv; 01/18/25 12:36 PM.

I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows® Today!

If you’ve already purchased Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®, great news—a new update is now available! This update introduces a handy new feature: a vertical cursor in the Tracks window that shows the current location across all tracks, and more.

Discover everything included in this free update and download it now at https://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1124

Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Boot Camp: The AI Lyrics Generator

With Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows®, we've introduced an exciting new feature: the AI Lyrics Generator! In this video, Tobin guides you step-by-step on how to make the most of this new tool.

Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Boot Camp: The AI Lyrics Generator video.

Check out the forum post for more information.

Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using VST3 Plugins

Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows® now includes support for VST3 plugins, bringing even more creative possibilities to your music production. Join Simon as he guides you through the process in this easy-to-follow demonstration!

Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using VST3 Plugins

Join the conversation on our forum.

Video: Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows: Using The BB Stem Splitter!

In this video, Tobin provides a crash course on using the new BB Stem Splitter feature included in Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows®. During this process he also uses the Audio Chord Wizard (ACW) and the new Equalize Tempo feature.

Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using the BB Stem Splitter

Check out the forum post for some optional Tips & Tricks!

Congrats to Misha (Rustyspoon)…downloaded/installed a full Audiophile 2025!

Breaking News!

We’re thrilled to announce that Rustyspoon has made PG history as the very first person to successfully complete the download and install of the full Band-in-a-Box 2025 Windows Audiophile Edition (with FLAC files)—a whopping 610GB of data!

A big shoutout to Rustyspoon for stepping up to be our test "elf!"

Thank you for your support, Rustyspoon!

Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows Videos

With the launch of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows, we're adding new videos to our YouTube channel. We'll also share them here once they are published so you can easily find all the Band-in-a-Box® 2025 and new Add-on videos in one place!

Whether it's a summary of the new features, demonstrations of the 202 new RealTracks, new XPro Styles PAK 8, or Xtra Styles PAKs 18, information on the 2025 49-PAK, or detailed tutorials for other Band-in-a-Box® 2025 features, we have you covered!

Reference this forum post for One-Stop Shopping of our Band-in-a-Box® 2025 Videos - we will be updating this post as more videos are added!

Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows is Here!

Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows is here, packed with major new features and an incredible collection of available new content! This includes 202 RealTracks (in Sets 449-467), plus 20 bonus Unreleased RealTracks in the 2025 49-PAK. There are new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 4, two new sets of “RealDrums Stems,” XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAK 19, and more!

Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 with savings of up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special—available until December 31, 2024! Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.

2025 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK
with some incredible Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Windows 2025 packages, but for even more Add-ons (including 20 Unreleased RealTracks!) upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.

If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us directly—we’re here to help!

Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics83,851
Posts762,513
Members39,222
Most Online12,120
Jan 18th, 2025
Newest Members
midman, Dream Wrld, graham3ist, Howdee, Ziming Cheng
39,222 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
musocity 218
MarioD 164
jpettit 107
rsdean 90
Noel96 87
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5