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Mockups take time and never really hit the mark of what you can and cannot do.
There have been some excellent mockup lately, but please let us know where you need more clarity.
I'm glad you see re-imagining the User Experience and workflow as the same thing.
Sometimes it might be a graphical improvement and other times it might be a mouse improvement or consistent behavior across views. In my mockups, I changed the Radio Bar to show just a status of what is currently selected (You can see it in all images I posted, in the Left top corner. I envision that you could also, Right click on it and a drop down menu opens where you can select another track. @jpettit, Yes it time consuming to make a mockup, I'm already formulating a another mockup. Feel free to PM me, if you need too. Robert 
Last edited by robertw; 01/17/25 12:40 PM.
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@robertw @other Customers
Let's talk about common things shown in your mockups and called out in my OP list that I think all would agree with:
1) PANELS: You show at least two panels in each mockup. We have talk to Peter in the past about using them more. The already use them for example in the Mixer and Audio Edit views so the technically can do them easily. Panels are perfect to show related details/options for a main view. I think most would agree. (?)
2) TRANSPORT: Moving the Transport to the bottom giving more room for navigator view, more interactive transport buttons and other global things such as snap and loop states. I think most would agree. (?)
3)VIEWS: Core Views are called out in your vertical tool bar. Core views of the backbone to creating a consistent UI. (Chords, Tracks, Audio Edits, MIDI edits, Score Edits, Library) I think most would agree. (?)
4) TOOLBARS: You show very well toolbars being closer related to what they do or what they're about. We have suggested in the past and found in many music apps that allow you to layout toolbars that match your particular use. This both satisfies the simplification cry as well as making it more intuitive for somebody who uses the tool, for example, just to (generating backing tracks, practicing with backing tracks, creating songs for live playback) I think most would agree that simplified/customized toolbars is the right direction (?)
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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@jpettit
1) Agree.
2) Disagree. Whole panel that includes transport should be modular. Cling to top or bottom per user preference, or even moved to another screen.
3)Agree.
4)Agree.
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BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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i agree with Matt. 
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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I agree with Rustyspoon# I like the toolbar floating my self Look at My DAW setup ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/iBtXiwZ.jpg) If you look closely at it, you will see many floating things show when I move the main screen between monitors 2 & 3 (Top and Bottom), my transport stays where I want it. We should give users a lot of freedom to set things up as he likes. A few things should stay where they are set, like the "File icons" and the Main controls on the left. Here is a image showing some guide lines ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/xuJ63zn.png) Starting with your General foundation: YES (should be 3 "lite/med dark/Dark" and at the same time, good contrast) Dark mode (BB is killing my eyes) Yes (See Image) Design around core functions (Chords View, Track View, MIDI View, Score View, Library (Browser) Yes Graphics that look sharp on resolutions of HD to 2k (graphics are too low resolution and are fuzzy on High DPI systems)
Support High DPI scaling mode) YES User experience where they only have what they use, and when they need it on the screen. YES 100% consistency of all mouse and global attributes
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Simon.
some added ideas for your consideration.
1..now that bb has the nice new tracks view i suggest there is a major market oppurtunity imho.
given the gui is up for redesign anyway...and of course i dont know ramifications at the coding level but lets consider (assuming the main gui is tracks view TV) that things be designed so that the user can do a ton of work in tv rather than flitting around tween different views and feature dialogs
One reason i like RB is i can do a ton of song work in RB tracks view
without haveing to leave the view.
another app i use...the same...i can do lots of work in its track view without flitting all over the place.
in summary mate...and this is something we tried to do in industry..
how can a screen (in this case TV) be designed to be a users main
work productivity center ?? so the user saves time and is super
productive ?? in conclusion of course if one agrees then of course TV
should be the main screen with a great GUI.
thus when the user loads up bb tracks view is the first thing seen.
2..given the above that TV is the center of the bb user universe..
i suggest a few added nice features to make the user productive
so the user doesnt have to leave the main TV screen...
..a chord track.
..a tempo track
..a markers track
..a lyrics track.
..maybe also a control track ?? where users can enter shots/holds/rests
etc and the sorta features that F5 does ?
the above hidden or shown at users behest and of course the user
can update the foregoing. the idea being to reduce the number of
dialogs and screens a user has to navigate.
3..also Simon i would love to be able to do all audio/midi editing
in TV rather than haveing invoke various other user views.
this would be done via menu akin to RB currently.
eg want to delete a section ? right clik over selection and select
delete or lets say copy a section...same idea right clik for the edit
menu after hiliting.
in summary the idea being to help users like myself work 'fast'
when the song ideas are coming very fast to us rather than being diverted
by various screens and dialogs and thus possibly impedeing creative flow.
its a pity i cant show via a pic what i see in my mind.
frankly its frustrateing..but not only am i lousy at graphics but obviously
on these forums are users with excellent graphic skills.
and i would be foolish to even try.
i hope i make some sense Simon re the above.
ie TV is not only gui central but song creation central and thus various
other screens/dialogs might not be needed with the right design
approach.
happiness.
om
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I agree with Rustyspoon# Starting with your General foundation: YES (should be 3 "lite/med dark/Dark" and at the same time, good contrast) Dark mode (BB is killing my eyes) Yes (See Image) Design around core functions (Chords View, Track View, MIDI View, Score View, Library (Browser) Yes Graphics that look sharp on resolutions of HD to 2k (graphics are too low resolution and are fuzzy on High DPI systems)
Support High DPI scaling mode) YES User experience where they only have what they use, and when they need it on the screen. YES 100% consistency of all mouse and global attributesNow we are talking. +1 Often when I show a conceptual block diagram, people tune out. The best we could hope is agreement on the basics. Light/Dark themes yes, much of BB is configurable in terms of color but the basic MS window framework will not follow the OS settings. I discussed this with Peter and even showed him the code and the current development tool that he is using but was resistant as it would have to be done a different way for the Mac. I have yet to get any one here to take it seriously. So, we will see. Floating Transport sure why not. (thus, my kidding with Rusty) The bottom line on that topic is to take it more seriously showing states and give it more room for things like Current Bar/beats counter etc. Ironically since we seem to be thinking alike, I agree with your conceptual diagram 95%. I'm an advocate for toolbars being very configurable. I don't need a save button. The buttons on the vertical bar represent the major views and all else I'm in support of.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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..... lets consider (assuming the main gui is tracks view TV) that things be designed so that the user can do a ton of work in tv rather than flitting around tween different views and feature dialogs The user should be able to set what they want as the Main view. Everyone has different needs. You: TV Me: Chords Others: what ever they want! Robert
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... showing states and give it more room for things like Currente Bar/beats etc. That is what my next Mockup will try to show "Current Bar/mesaure" status and how adjustments could be made. Robert
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[quote=robertw]... BB is configurable in terms of color but the basic MS window framework will not follow the OS settings. I discussed this with Peter and even showed him the code and the current development tool that he is using but was resistant as it would have to be done a different way for the Mac. I have yet to get any one here to take it seriously. So, we will see.
.... Your right about windows, That's why I use windowblinds, That has solved most of my color settings. My mockups show in the Windows & BiaB color settings. I think that when BiaB is installed and opened, It should be with the current colors and icons so that users will not be lost. As for how everything else may look, existing users will quickly find everything. any user that wants to change colors and/or Icons can. Robert
Last edited by robertw; 01/17/25 05:10 PM.
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@justanoldmuso
I agree that things that slow you down kill your creativity thus an emphasis on workflow in the last year.
I agree the Track view has huge potential in terms of doing all your work. It was intentionally neutered last year as a start and just got a cursor this year. Many of us agree with you that it needs to be a primary place to work.
Ideally you should be able to do anything you can do in the chord track on a special chord track in the track view as in full Chord View capabilities.
BB is unique in that the progression is really the root of the process thus also a primary window. The Micro chords, Bar settings and Chord Settings need to be re-imagined directly in the Chord view.
The progression plus the library of musicians together makes this song.
The Track view can be a place to fine tune or as you suggest a place to start as long as the progression is there.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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robertw.
re chords....a clarification.
the idea in track view TV is if there were a chord track that the current chord view would essentially not be needed. (maybe keep CV for those that still want it.).
so people could enter and change chords in chord track.
and thus no constant switching tween CV and TV which i often do now.
All.
on the graphics showing the main work area and then this features selection space on the left hand side could instead a user switch that space to the right hand side.
as an option ? for some reason i have a problem with lots of things happening on the left of a waveform area. maybe its psychological...dunno.
but i tried a well known daw recently and it had all these features on the left hand side of the waveform area that i found confusing and also difficult visually for me.
dont ask me to explain why. i'm weird...lol. just way my brain works.
one reason i like both rb tracks view and reaps version 2 TV is there are just a few
basic controls on left hand side of the waveform area so i can work fast getting ideas down.
not trying to cheese off anyone but maybe also consider anything advanced not related to track waveforms be displayed or hidden at user behest ?
ie not fixed ? eg lets say there is a advanced control panel for each track...
it wouldnt have the basics like vol/pan etc...but the fancy controls like duplicate track or adding a vst or other things ??
just want to mention something else also.
one of the banes of any vocallist like myself is singing a note or phrase too early or late.
so in many daws one just zooms in and highlights that one note or phrase and shifts it forward or back in time a smidge.
OR one can be creative with vocs by singing two tracks ie doubles and then mess around with things like offsets of certain notes/phrases and pans and vols.
lot of nice things that can be done with vocal doubles.
thus the ability to at the note/phrase level muck around with say vols/pans can be used creatively to enhance a vocal double.
for example lets say as part of a vocal track there was an off the cuff adlib...
'lets hit the groove'. but that one phrase one doesnt want centered like the lead voc
but one wants it on the left or right hand side of the stereo image one could just hilite 'lets hit the groove' and pan just that phrase where one wants.
maybe i'm takeing ideas too far...but there are lots of things like above sometimes people want to do to tracks.
just some ideas.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/18/25 03:48 AM.
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Some key ideas: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=29967&filename=BB GUI Redesign.jpg)
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Jeff, good presentation.
I think, the cell you have for "Time Loop / Editable chords" can be incorporated in general tools to minimize clutter even further. Loop can be defined in navigator (time line loop points). Loop options - into Transport button Loop. Loops on track level - right click on selection.
Editable chords... (editable chord track not to be confused with current C.Track) could be an optional strip, similar to wide navigator. An option of navigator bar.
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@jpettit, I hope that the Main program menu is still at the top Left side? As for the Title & Meter (I'm guessing Volume meter?) I feel that it would be best if the following Icons were in that location: File Open
Save
Save Asand the rest of what PGM uses, should be optional to use on not. All should be on by default and let the user turn them off if they want. As for the Style,Tempo/Key/etc, Transport, snap, Loop & Counter. they all need to be one Grouping, and can be relocated or floated if needed. Clarification on the things should be made:The Gray buttons you have for Tracks, Chords, Edit, Mix & Musicians, are they the same as what I put in my mockup. If so then also make that a group that could be moved or floated, and also if it is, then what is the Navigator? FYI, the only reason I put them on the Left, is because, having things on both the top and bottom, only makes less room for the current view ares (Wide but not to tall). I Never saw in any DAW or Program for that matter with it set to the right. With the exception of it having Both sides with something other that the Main view. Mostly everybody's monitors today are wider that tall. I feel that it may be best to first to define what groups should always be together (example: File.Save/Save as.......) and Transport controls, what should be with them? Is the Time/Loop the timeline? and What to you mean by (Editable Chords)? In the Options Details, I also feel that is where some of the editing could be done (Think of F5 on steroids) Once we define the Main groups, then, I think we could better define the overall Main layout. Where did the Radio bar go to? Robert
Last edited by robertw; 01/18/25 03:35 PM. Reason: Where did the Radio bar go to?
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Jeff, good presentation.
1) I think, the cell you have for "Time Loop / Editable chords" can be incorporated in general tools to minimize clutter even further.
2) Loop can be defined in navigator (time line loop points).
2a) Loop options - into Transport button Loop.
2b) Loops on track level - right click on selection.
3) Editable chords... (editable chord track not to be confused with current C.Track) could be an optional strip, similar to wide navigator.
3a) An option of navigator bar. EDIT re-read many topics here... 1) That are is the timeline. 1a) Timeline is where loop indicator is in all DAWs. In you PM we are on same page. 2) not sure what you mean but it would work identical to what you show in Cakewalk and in other DAWs (your PM video is in sync with my thoughts)
Last edited by jpettit; 01/18/25 05:58 PM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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I thought that was the timeline Thanks, Robert
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I thought that was the timeline That's true in BIG button view, and even there it doesn't follow cursor precisely. Switch to Minimalistic view and it becomes a navigator. Bottom line, I believe this strip SHOULD become the time line and a "navigator" should be something common like this: ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/90VF9XC1/nav.jpg)
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